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Author Topic: Tenebris class, I need to know...  (Read 105 times)

Offline Actkqk

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Tenebris class, I need to know...
« on: July 12, 2019, 11:22:09 PM »
Hi, I'm the creator of Tenebris class.

Times are advancing and you must move forward with them. This class has not been updated for a long time and it's time to make a few changes.
If someone is seeing this, I need to solve something. Right now I'm in the process of modifying skills and would like to know your preferences. You know that this class has skills with some high cooldown, for example Deep Impact. Those cooldown are to avoid the repeated use of too powerful skills. Do you want that mechanics to be maintained or do you prefer those skills with lower cooldown but at great mana cost?

Even if you don't know the class you can answer. What mechanics do you prefer, high mana cost or high cooldown?

Thanks  ;)

Offline steffire3

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Re: Tenebris class, I need to know...
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 12:33:58 AM »
@Actkqk Thanks for writing this!
I would say having played several mod classes that:

High Mana Cost is good when there's an end game spammable attack Skill that is powerful and should require players to sacrifice affixes to support the high mana cost.

High Cool Downs are very effective at keeping powerful Crowd Control Skills balanced otherwise the entire battlefield could be locked down to easy mode like the Engineer's Rank 15 Immobile Copter.

For me it's a matter of forcing the player to make a choice as to what kind of battle power they are building and how to support those options.

A good example would be if there are two powerful end game spam attack Skills- if the player wants to support those then they must build Mana Regen or just choose one and use economic skills to support that one.

Then with two powerful Crowd Control Skills it's a matter of only being able to use them when most needed. This forces the player to strategically use their CC wisely... waiting for a group of mobs worth CC'ing rather than simply locking down mobs all the time.

Those are my thoughts.  :)

What are your thoughts on this @Sch123 ? You have played many mods and I have a respect for your playtime experience.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 03:31:51 AM by steffire3 »
At this point after playing Torchlight 2 for 5 years original and modded... ignorant of mods and now wise with compatibility... the one thing I value the most-

-is being able to have "support" from the author of any mod.

I think the only advice I can give is that you don't burn yourself out. ^_^

Offline Phanjam

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Re: Tenebris class, I need to know...
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 12:50:27 AM »
My 2 cents is i prefer managing the use of skills thru mana, not cooldowns, only bcos the concept of cooldown seems "artificial" to me (i have enough mana; why cant i use it yet?!)

I would like to see "advanced" mana costs where not only does the skill cost mana, but really strong skills will even slow down your mana regen!



Offline Phanjam

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Re: Tenebris class, I need to know...
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 01:06:47 AM »
Oh and just to mention, u can also use the discord server to ask quick questions and get (hopefully) quick answers for any modding troubles ;)

The link to the discord should be on the upper right, underneath the shoutbox window



Offline Actkqk

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Re: Tenebris class, I need to know...
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 01:31:22 AM »
I'm still undecided. For me, the big problem that TL2 has is that it is very easy to take a mana potion and continue as if nothing happens. Even if a skill has a cost of 100 mana (for example), there is nothing that prevents its reuse in about 5 seconds.
I still remember when some claimed for the high cooldowns. I think I was the first or one of the first to introduce cooldowns for spells with more than 40 seconds of duration. But they did not realize that the spell required to be controlled because of its high power compared to normal spells.
I will continue to wait for more opinions, and thank you for yours. Anyway I think that in the end I will lean towards a mix, that is, reduction of cooldown but at the same time raise the mana cost according to new graphs (stat lines) specific to the skill in question.


Offline Kva3imoda

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Re: Tenebris class, I need to know...
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2019, 07:33:31 AM »
Well, I'm against the cooldowns, this is a newer mechanic that appeared in Diablo3, but the classic games didn't have that. This is one of the classic features of TL2. But mods creates to make something new and non-standard. If you have something to show and do something interesting for players, then do it.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 07:35:05 AM by Kva3imoda »

Offline Sch123

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Re: Tenebris class, I need to know...
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2019, 10:47:10 PM »
What are your thoughts on this @Sch123 ? You have played many mods and I have a respect for your playtime experience.
Thank you @steffire3

I don't really understand the mechanism of high MP cost or high cooldown, but I'm not against the cooldown. Because I think it's made so as to limit players to using skills so that the skill is not used too often / used only in desperate conditions.

I also found the use of cooldown like, when other skills are still cooldown you can have the opportunity to use other skills because you still leave MP.

If you use High MP then chances are you can't use a skill big enough. Because basically almost all skills use MP as a cost & cooldown as a skill suppressor.

So it depends on the placement, for example:

- In summon skills that have summon monster abilities when he dies. So I think using cooldown to suppress the ability to not over-power is quite right. Because if you don't get cooldown, players will be able to summon lots of monsters. Of course this can also be solved by giving the summon duration of the summoned monster.

So the conclusion, balance is very necessary in this matter.

This is what I understand, sorry if I'm wrong. :)

Offline Actkqk

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Re: Tenebris class, I need to know...
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 01:11:43 AM »
Well, taking advantage of the cocurrence, you will be the first to know about my update. This is the list of changes, it's not definitive and before applying them in the public version I must test them.

- Poison Twister: Small decrease in mana cost. Cooldown reduced from 10 to 8 seconds. Tornado displacement speed increased to almost double.

- Nightmarish Fire: Reduction in mana cost. Modification of particles to distinguish it from among many similar missiles and give it a more "scary" touch.

- Afraid of the Dark: Duration of the shield increased from 10 to 12 seconds.

- Annihilator: No changes.

- Conviction: Reduction in mana cost. Cooldown reduced from 40 to 35 seconds.

- The Dark Prison: No changes ---> Possible candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Deep Impact: No changes at the moment ---> maybe I should reduce cooldown and then create my own mana cost scale. Strong candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Doomsday: No changes at the moment ---> maybe I should reduce cooldown and then create my own mana cost scale. Strong candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Electric Inferno: Reduced considerably the mana cost. ---> Possible candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Infestation (and its Procs): No changes. ---> Strong candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Fatal Attraction: Cooldown reduced from 1 minute to 45 seconds. Reduced mana cost.

- Massive Force: Reduced mana cost. Cooldown reduced to 1 minute with 30 seconds. --->maybe I should reduce cooldown even more and then create my own mana cost scale. Strong candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Glacial Mastery: Reduction of HP cost at all levels.

- Rain Mastery: Reduction of HP cost at all levels.

- Thunder Mastery: Reduction of HP cost at all levels.

- Dark Blessing: No changes.

- Defense Mastery: Increase of HP increased in all levels.

- Elemental Defense: No changes.

- Mana Change: Small decrease in HP cost and increase of the recharge factor in all levels.

- Arachnophobia: Unchanged at the moment. ---> Strong candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Retaliation: No changes.

- Rip All: Small reduction of mana cost.

- Fire Champion: All cooldowns reduced drastically. ---> Strong candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- The Dark way: No changes.

- Dead Zone: consistent reduction of mana cost. ---> Possible candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Toxic Land: small reduction in mana cost.---> Strong candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Triple Threshold: Reduction of mana cost. Cooldown reduced from 10 to 8 seconds.

- Green Punishment: Reduction of mana cost. ---> Strong candidate for new scale of unlocking progression.

- Whirlwind: Unchanged at the moment. ---> seriously thinking about changing the skill name since it was never a true whirlwind  ???

- Wolf Pack: Created its own level unlock scale. Start at level 18 and finish at level 74. ---> to be or not to be dilemma... is it convenient to let people enjoy the full potential of a skill (summons in this case) long before level 90? We'll see.

Offline Phanjam

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Re: Tenebris class, I need to know...
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 03:28:27 AM »
Hey Actkqk! If u want to use us as testers we'd be happy to help (and we can keep secrets too :D )

Just to mention, if u want to test using a system like "unlock skill B only when u have X investment in skill A" you can reverse engineer my Classless mod ;)



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