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Author Topic: Skills on weapons  (Read 5885 times)

Offline F430

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Re: Skills on weapons
« Reply #105 on: October 22, 2018, 11:11:48 PM »
Paging Professor @steffire3 !!

I just received a report that custom UI icons aren't working, changed some things around and pushed an update.
However I would like you, assuming you're still subscribed, to either confirm or deny that said icons are fixed.
Easiest way to do that would be to create a new character and cheat the items in, commands are "item eec_adrenaline_pill" and "item eec_charge_booster_1", pick them up, use and see if icons show up.

Thanks in advance.

Offline steffire3

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Re: Skills on weapons
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2018, 01:15:12 AM »
@F430 I confirm that these two items are working very well including their icons!  :)

= = =

So I've been meaning to write this list for your EEC mod for some time now and I finally got it:

Level 100 Unique : ELEMENTAL MINION ARMOR SETS: Make sure that any Class can wear them. Thanks! :)

Spoiler
(Notice the Set names are all 8 + 4 letters and match the theme of the Combat Style provided)

Physical with Pet and Minion Drained* = Variance Minion Set
(*Minus Damage Percentage)

Electric with Pet and Minion Damage = Launcher Minion Set

Poison with Pet and Minion Armor = Battered Minion Set

Fire with Pet and Minion Health = Patience Minion Set

Ice with Pet and Minion Speed = Timeless Minion Set

Example Set: All "Level 100" Sets have 12 pieces with 2 Sockets each with the Set Name {with 2 Wands matching their Set element (Physical Set has Pistols)}.

Helm : 10% Attack and Cast Speeds.
Core : 10% Chance to Reflect Missiles at 10% DPS, 10% Potion Effectiveness.
Robe : 10% Ranged Damage, 10% Chance to Fully Heal Self when you get Hit.
Hand : 10% Fumble Chance and Penalty Reduction.
Pant : 10% Dodge Chance, +1000 Max Health.
Boot : 10% Slow and Immobile Resists.
Belt : 10% Charge Rates Gained and Kept.
Neck : 10% Stun Resist, 10% Secondary (Splash) Target Damage.
Ring_x2 : +10 Max Mana, 10% Gold, Magic and Fish Luck.
Weapon_x2 : (~950+ DPS, Exclusively Theme Damage) 10 Health and Mana Stolen on Hit, -100 to enemy (Theme) Armor, 10% Execution Chance.

All pieces also deal the same thing : +10% Pet and Minion (Theme). Physical Set causes Pets and Minions to lose "-8% Damage" per piece.

= = =

Why? Because this forces the player to actually find more Set pieces and keeps the most important (Damage centric) bonuses for last like a more extreme version of what the vanilla unique Sets try to accomplish only this really enforces it.

Purple Set (Number of Pieces) Bonuses : {Physical Set deals double amounts to balance the -8% to -96% Pet and Minion Damage (Lost)}.

01 : +10% to (Theme) Armor.

02 : +10% Less (Theme) Damage Taken

03 : Reflect 100 (Theme) Damage

04 : +100 (Theme) Damage

05 : Deal 100 (Theme) Damage over 5 seconds

06 : +10% (Theme) Damage

07 : +10% to (Theme) Armor.

08 : +10% Less (Theme) Damage Taken

09 : Reflect 100 (Theme) Damage

10 : +100 (Theme) Damage

11 : Deal 100 (Theme) Damage over 5 seconds

12 : +10% (Theme) Damage


I hope you can find a way to implement these Sets.

I tried to convey how to make the Physical Set uniquely different from the other themes by writing it's differences in Red.

It would take 6 pieces of the Electric Set totaling (+60% P&M_D) to get 12% positive against 6 pieces of the Physical Set's brutal totaling of (-48% P&M_D).
Ice Set at 6 pieces would boost Minion Speed by 60% which in theory offsets the bad Minion effects of the Physical Set equally.
Fire and Poison have similar offsets against Physical Set Minion Losses in the form of defensive boosts at 60% with 6 pieces.
However if players do not require Minions or Pets to deal damage then an exclusive build of the Physical Minion Set would boost the Player twice more than the other Minion Sets.
An interesting balance and choice for players to have. :o

These 5 Sets are intended to have the option of being mixed together or exclusively gathered to increase build diversity.

Let me know if I need to explain with more detail as I tried to describe the plan as concisely as possible. :D
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 04:47:13 AM by steffire3 »
At this point after playing Torchlight 2 for 4 years original and modded... ignorant of mods and now wise with compatibility... the one thing I value the most-

-is being able to have "support" from the author of any mod.

I think the only advice I can give is that you don't burn yourself out. ^_^

Offline F430

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Re: Skills on weapons
« Reply #107 on: October 24, 2018, 02:36:54 PM »
@steffire3 This is based on rather simple, and potentially incorrect, interpretation of how pets/minions work, but unless otherwise stated somewhere, pets only deal physical damage, and gimping that in favour of damage types that aren't accessible to pets is counter-intuitive.
On top of that, I don't know exact stats of armour pieces, so not only does the pet become ineffective in combat, the player does so as well.
Third and final piece of "bad news" is that I'm done with EEC. I implemented and released everything I wanted the mod to have and this is it as far I see it.

Therefore, unless you can convince me otherwise and elaborate on some key aspects of this set, the whole thing is up in the air.

Edit: that wasn't meant to sound like I'm aloof to your suggestion, or forgot about you testing stuff for me. It's just that based on what I gathered, the whole thing seems to be more of a hindrance rather than a benefit.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 03:00:31 PM by F430 »

Offline steffire3

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Re: Skills on weapons
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2018, 05:01:41 PM »
@F430
Perhaps the "Minion" name of the Sets is confusing (I also considered naming them "Summon" Sets).
Pets and Minions still follow the same rules and restrictions that vanilla TL2 Affixes will enforce on these Sets.

The Affixes are affecting the Player only unless the Affix directly states "Pet and Minion" just as vanilla TL2 already does.

The P&M Gimping or Nerfing that occurs on Physical Sets in favor of Buffing the Player may be possible if TL2 permits negative Pet and Minion Affixes.
Losing some numbers to gain other numbers is reminiscent of the vanilla TL2 Asphyx Set.

However I will gladly drop the Pet Minion Negative Damage and just ask for the Physical Set to give Pet Minions a little of all four Pet Minion Boosts if needed. :D

= = =

For Armor Values I say that:
Helms, Robes (Shoulders), Cores (Chests), Pants, Hands and Boots will give 200 Physical Armor
and the Belts, Necks and Rings give 300 to All Elemental Armor
=
All Sets therefore give 1200 total Physical and 1200 total All Elemental Armor and...
...whichever Set the Theme is will double the Theme Armor amount so the Fire Set would give 2400 total Fire Armor and likewise for the other Sets respective to their Theme.

For Strength, Dexterity, Focus and Vitality requirements:
I was thinking of setting them all at 150 leading to a 600 total that is over the 495 vanilla gain limit which then requires Players to use Boris the Stat Enchanter on other Gear in order to wear these Sets before reaching Level 100.

I have made changes to the Set Pieces:
So they now have greater individual value for a Player by giving them 2 or 4 generally useful Affixes within reason (totaling 24 more Affixes given by any one of these Unique Sets).

I also rewrote the numbers to consistently apply boosts by the numbers 10, 100 or 1000.

Spoiler
Example Set: All "Level 100" Sets have 12 pieces with 2 Sockets each with their Set Name {with 2 Wands matching their Set element (Physical Set has Pistols)}.

Helm : 10% Attack and Cast Speeds.
Core : 10% Chance to Reflect Missiles at 10% DPS, 10% Potion Effectiveness.
Robe : 10% Ranged Damage, 10% Chance to Fully Heal Self when you get Hit.
Hand : 10% Fumble Chance and Penalty Reduction.
Pant : 10% Dodge Chance, +1000 Max Health.
Boot : 10% Slow and Immobile Resists.
Belt : 10% Charge Rates Gained and Kept.
Neck : 10% Stun Resist, 10% Secondary (Splash) Target Damage.
Ring_x2 : +10 Max Mana, 10% Gold, Magic and Fish Luck.
Weapon_x2 : (1000 DPS, Exclusively Theme Damage) 10 Health and Mana Stolen on Hit, -100 to enemy (Theme) Armor, 10% Execution Chance.

All pieces also deal the same thing : +10% Pet and Minion (Theme).

= = =

Purple Set (Number of Pieces) Bonuses :

01 : +10% to (Theme) Armor
02 : +10% Less (Theme) Damage Taken
03 : Reflect 100 (Theme) Damage
04 : +100 (Theme) Damage
05 : Deal 100 (Theme) Damage over 5 seconds
06 : +10% (Theme) Damage
07 : +10% to (Theme) Armor
08 : +10% Less (Theme) Damage Taken
09 : Reflect 100 (Theme) Damage
10 : +100 (Theme) Damage
11 : Deal 100 (Theme) Damage over 5 seconds
12 : +10% (Theme) Damage

I should say that:

"Pet and Minion (Theme)" means it could be one of 4 things : P&M Damage, P&M Armor, P&M Health or P&M Speed.

"(Theme) Damage or Armor" is referring to Physical, Ice, Fire, Poison or Electric Damage or Armor added to the Player and not Pet Minions.

I apologize as I should have been more clear on this (Set Theme) separation between the Player and the Pet Minions. :o

= = =

If necessary then I will gladly settle for only One Set that only specializes in doubling Physical values and only increases Pet Minion Damage.

I value your opinion and gladly accept any Affix changes or Numerical edits in order to fit this plan into the EEC Mod or by Vanilla Values for a Standalone Mod as needed. :)

= = =

Congrats on finishing your EEC Mod!!! :)
This mod is a great contribution to our combined community! Do you plan to release this mod on the Nexus site and the Runic Fansite?

I can safely hold this "Minion Set Plan" request for another time for another modder. It's what I do with all my requests over the years.
What matters is that you have achieved your goals and have fulfilled your plan! :D
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 04:48:01 AM by steffire3 »
At this point after playing Torchlight 2 for 4 years original and modded... ignorant of mods and now wise with compatibility... the one thing I value the most-

-is being able to have "support" from the author of any mod.

I think the only advice I can give is that you don't burn yourself out. ^_^

Offline Phanjam

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Re: Skills on weapons
« Reply #109 on: October 25, 2018, 06:37:32 AM »
hey @F430 being on "modding break" i was looking thrugh my junk at what i might pass along, and i found a whole bunch of custom bow meshes :)

Youre welcome to them if youd like to maybe make some crazy new items out of them ;)



Offline F430

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Re: Skills on weapons
« Reply #110 on: October 28, 2018, 04:03:41 PM »
@steffire3 sorry but that's a pass.
Pets were never meant to be a primary focus of the game, not to mention majority of players will choose either vanilla, or some large-scale conversions like Synergies, or one of those popular compilations.
Balancing should always be attempted with the above in mind and, considering the gap between vanilla and Syn/other overhauls, it's borderline impossible. Pets will be stupidly OP in vanilla and still borderline useless in Syn/etc. Not to mention revolving entire sets around what is basically a mobile aggro beacon feels rather impractical, especially if there are no universal benefits other than the off-chance someone actually uses pets for something other than secondary inventory.

The main point of EEC was to benefit the player without sacrificing balance. I deliberately chose numbers/affixes/stats/etc that struck a balance between survivability [Syn] and comfort [vanilla], all the while not favouring a specific class or playstyle.
Reliance on pets/summons is a playstyle and if I were to start catering to specific playstyles/classes, that would defeat the primary point of EEC in its entirety.

As for comfy mode vs hard mode, that's the main reason there are 4 stages of armour. If players feel comfortable enough taking hits without dying instantly, they'll settle for Stage 1/2, otherwise they will craft the highest stage for higher difficulties and/or higher difficulty mods.
The mod itself also addressed the main gripe a lot of people may have had, the same gripe I've had with vanilla's lackluster sets, and Synergies' over-the-top "endgame" armours that forced players to jump through ridiculous hurdles.

And lastly, going back to your sets. All of what you're listing is easily made redundant by Skull of Umbarmum [+35% pet/minion dmg], Skull of Quato [+64 to all elemental armour], and then some, all without arbitrary restrictions of 4 different armour sets.
And if that isn't enough, there already exist properly fleshed-out mods that add more socketables of different varieties, all with different bonuses and drawbacks.

I'm not being lazy, I'm not backpedalling, making excuses, or calling your ideas useless. No. All I'm saying is that a stock, unmodded game already has the means to rely on pets and summons without requiring mods like EEC, which in itself exists to address a lack of versatile player armour for endgame chars.
And before you say anything - T3 of EEC armour needs 5 pieces to grant 100% chance of burn/shock/poison/freeze for 5 seconds, while T3 belt gives you 1790 physical damage over 5 seconds. All of those are from the armour itself, meaning they're added to every attack, irrespective of weapon stats.

@Phanjam I have no software to deal with 3D models, nor do I have time to get it and learn how to use it.
Pretty sure Anarch or Kvazimoda could make better use of those assets.

Offline Phanjam

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Re: Skills on weapons
« Reply #111 on: October 29, 2018, 10:58:04 AM »
@Phanjam I have no software to deal with 3D models, nor do I have time to get it and learn how to use it.
Pretty sure Anarch or Kvazimoda could make better use of those assets.
Oh these models are pretty much ready-to-go into a bow unit .DAT. Just point to the resource folder and the mesh file  8)

Spoiler

22 models in all, from the TL Mobile game.



Well just let me know if you'd like them ;)

EDIT

Hey i went ahead and posted a link to the downloadable assets over here. Hope it brings smiles to modders and players alike ;)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 04:01:08 PM by Phanjam »



Offline Sch123

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Re: Skills on weapons
« Reply #112 on: October 29, 2018, 11:15:59 AM »
Wow, that's so cool. :o
I hope that weapons can be made for TL2. ;)

It would be good if it could have a unique effect on that weapon. :P
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:18:48 AM by Sch123 »

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