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Mod Projects => Lolesch's Playground => Skills Masteries Classless Concept => Topic started by: Phanjam on November 08, 2017, 11:08:11 AM

Title: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on November 08, 2017, 11:08:11 AM
Hi all!  As i stated in the discord, i will push ahead with a proof-of-concept (POC) project for the CLASSLESS CHARACTER mod.  I have started using TL1 because I think TL1 has a simpler set-up of the game files which I hope will make it more sure that whatever test results I get (good or bad) are really from my files, and not other game files which i broke :D

My rough work-plan for this POC is...

1. Make a larger skill fold-out
2. Make skills depend on other skills
3. Make a "system of skills" which takes advantage of their interdependency (assuming i get #2 to work in TL1 :P )

This is just for the POC which is a really just a learning project.  Then I'll see where it goes depending on what happens with the above.
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 08, 2017, 11:12:35 AM
Hey @Vkoslak  and @Kva3imoda i just edited the TL1 skill.mesh used for the skill fold-out in TL1 in Blender to make it wider, then exported to .MESH again.

But I think TL1 doesn't like the newer version of .MESH :P Which i/o scripts do i use again to export in the older .MESH format?

Thanks!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 09, 2017, 07:33:34 AM
okay as a fallback i also want to learn how to widen the TL2 skill foldout like this...

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/MmeemtW.png)

It was done by user LucasTULSA who posted this pic on forums.runicgames (http://forums.runicgames.com/discussion/45439/skill-tree-is-it-necessary-to-expand-the-skill-group) in 2012!

Unfortunately he did not post anything about how he did it.  I know it's a custom .skilltreeoverride file, but i'm not sure if changes like this doable just by dragging things around inside GUTS.  I'm thinking of starting with a larger skilltree background image and just drag the other elements around.

But any tips from anyone would be a big help! ;)  Thanks!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on November 09, 2017, 07:54:34 AM
If I can give my opinion, I prefer Mod Classy Classes - Use any Skill on any Class (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=309222335&searchtext=class). In that mod you can choose all vanilla skill class without covering all monitor screen  :)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 09, 2017, 11:18:00 AM
Thanks Sch123 but what I am trying to make is very different from Classy Classes mod.  This thread (http://torchmodders.com/forums/lure-of-ember-tc-public-board/re-re-(idea-generation)-mods-to-encourage-more-online-mp/msg539/#msg539) should give you a better idea...
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Zayn Malik on November 09, 2017, 11:37:27 AM
I'm still finding way to build Melee Class using Claw with Critical and Health Stolen. Hope it from @Phanjam

And that Talent Tree is awesome, like DOTA II  ;D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 09, 2017, 11:43:29 AM
Quote from: Zayn Malik
And that Talent Tree is awesome, like DOTA II  ;D
Yes it looks really good!  Hope I can figure it out this weekend ;)

I also used @gytfunke 's UI files from his early works on the LOE mod.  It looks like this...

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/LP2yBSH.png)

I'd like to change it a little but I need to understand it more first.  But it's close to what I am imagining :)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: gytfunke on November 09, 2017, 02:40:48 PM
Understand the skill menu's UI?

The most important feature I had in mind was that you'd have to invest in a T1 skill to see the T2 skill of that tree.

Lemme know what questions you might have about it.

Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 09, 2017, 10:30:31 PM
Eyy @gytfunke thanks! Yes this weekend i will experiment with things like 1 scrolling field vs many tabbed fields. As its just a POC im not planning on so many skills just yet, but i do want to try a horizontal arrangement of the skill progressions  :o

You are SO welcome to drop by here and throw peanuts from the gallery :D (gold nuggets are good too!)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 10, 2017, 09:21:39 AM
Quote from: Phanjam
I think TL1 doesn't like the newer version of .MESH :P Which i/o scripts do i use again to export in the older .MESH format?
Thanks again @Vkoslak for the tip on OGREXMLConverter 1.6.3,

because...

IT WORKED!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/ggzE2Ij.png)

Now to change the background and see if TL1 will let me alter skills to be dependent on other skills :D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Zayn Malik on November 10, 2017, 11:53:46 AM
It's too awesome @Phanjam
I think about a lot of passive skill and we can call it talents or perks

And I see some screenshots in this thread
http://torchmodders.com/forums/classless-character-concept-(new)/mod-directionvision/

OMG, *screaming*  ???
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 10, 2017, 05:57:18 PM
Thabks @Zayn Malik :) im still going to experiment with different unlocking mechanics (the logic triggers scare me!).  This mod is for learning but hopefully also fun to test :D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 13, 2017, 09:15:57 AM
I shifted to working in TL2 because i was having trouble making the sill lock/unlock work in TL1.  So i figured out the logic for locking/unlocking of skills in TL2 - really neat!  Thanks very much to @gytfunke for teaching me this ;)

And I have this skill tree which i'm using for testing...

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/OST8IH7.jpg)

That is in-game and so far it seems stable. Don't mind the skilltree art - it's very much placeholder for now (took me forever to get the alignments right :P )

As you can see there are currently 4 tabs (can be more).

The idea is each tab will be for a set of skills of a certain player-type (fighter, mage, summoner, etc)

My idea is to have a "training skill" for each tab, probably a passive skill. like for the fighter tab, the training skill might give you a damage bonus that scales with strength.  The training skill will go up about 15 - 20 levels BUT EACH LEVEL WILL ACTUALLY BE ONE SKILL ON ITS OWN, and each level is locked until you've invested in the previous level.

Then there are other skills on the tree (mostly active but these can be passives too) which are locked until you've invested in a certain level of the training skills. So like "slash attack" (a destroyer skill) might unlock once you've invested in the 5th level of the training skill.  And so on for all non-training skills on the tree.

(https://i.imgur.com/3Dl765S.png)

So that's my idea - comments welcome ;)

EDIT - will take a short break from this for now as i haven't been feeling well these past few days :P
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Zayn Malik on November 13, 2017, 12:41:37 PM
@Phanjam
Your work is a masterpiece. I think it will open new world for TL II
Congratulation  ;D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: gytfunke on November 14, 2017, 12:35:44 AM
Haha, yeah, the alignments are a bear.  I can't remember if I ever figured them out.
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 14, 2017, 03:51:15 AM
Lol yeah that took me like a day and a half!

Some improvement t the skilltree artwork...

Classless Skilltree Art
(https://i.imgur.com/BIRIvvS.png)

Always helps inspire me to work if the artwork is prettier (i'm shallow that way :P )

I'll get started on a "fighter" skilltree first, since that's my favorite playstyle...
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 14, 2017, 05:40:30 AM
Okay here is the AFFIX i plan to use for level 1 of the "Fighter" training skill...

Code: [Select]
[AFFIX]
<STRING>NAME:CLASSLESS_FIGHTER_TRAINING_01
<INTEGER>RANK:0
<INTEGER>MIN_SPAWN_RANGE:0
<INTEGER>MAX_SPAWN_RANGE:999
<FLOAT>DURATION:0
<INTEGER>WEIGHT:0
<INTEGER>SLOTS_OCCUPY:0
[EFFECT]
<STRING>NAME:CLASSLESS_FIGHTER_TRAINING_01
<STRING>ACTIVATION:PASSIVE
<STRING>DURATION:ALWAYS
<STRING>TYPE:DAMAGE
<STRING>DAMAGE_TYPE:PHYSICAL
<STRING>STATMODIFYNAME:CHARACTER STRENGTH
<STRING>STATMODIFYPERCENT:130
<BOOL>NOGRAPH:true
<FLOAT>SOAKSCALE:0.8
<FLOAT>MIN:1
<FLOAT>MAX:1
<FLOAT>MINFORCE:1
<FLOAT>MAXFORCE:1
[/EFFECT]
[/AFFIX]

From here <STRING>STATMODIFYPERCENT: will go up in increments of 5 and <FLOAT>SOAKSCALE: will drop also in incremets of 5.  Each affix will be used by a separate skill (training skills 1 to 15 or 20 for example).

Gonna run with this for now, but if anyone sees any problems with it pls let me know!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 14, 2017, 09:12:23 AM
Thx @Vkoslak for pointing out the Titan Quest skill systenm
http://titanquest.wikia.com/wiki/Character_Classes
Lots of disciplines like that is something the mod can grow towards i guess. To start with i was thinking of the basic archetypes...
- Warrior - physical damage scaling off STR
- Defender - armor bonuses scaling off VIT
- Caster - elemental damage, cast speed and mana cost bonuses scaling off FOC
- Summoner - minion damage and mana cost bonuses scaling off FOC
- Rogue - attack speed bonuses and mana cost reduction scaling off DEX
- Marksman - rangrd weapon crit chance scaling off DEX
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: steffire3 on November 15, 2017, 07:26:35 AM
Amazing progress @Phanjam !!!  :o

Will you consider dynamic growth?

Investing points in one school will raise more than one affix and increases 2 of 5 element types:

Example:

Dual Shield Fighter School:

Every point invested raises:

+0.1% Shield Armor Value converted into Weapon Damage based on Average Equipment Level.

+0.1% Max Health based on Average Equipment Level.

+0.1% Fire Damage / Armor based on Average Equipment Level.

+0.1% Physical Damage / Armor based on Average Equipment Level.  

In other words if your "Average Equipment Level is 100" and 20 points have been invested then:

+2% times 100 is +200% for these affixes which makes for a worthy fighter!  :D

= = =

In case you are wondering how to affect affixes based on Average Equipment Level then check the mod "Skills Expansion" for it's skill examples.

I hope this gives some ideas!  ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 15, 2017, 01:49:14 PM
Thx @steffire3 :) the form of the affixes and the skills is very far from final. For the moment i am just worrying about making sure the locking/unlocking works properly. To do that i will probably just reuse the vanilla skills with minor changes.

When that works well i might even stop there, bcos making new skills at high quality and balancing them all against each other is hard work. I might just donate the mod files to the community for any modder to use in their own mod vision ;)

But thats still a long way away XD at the rate im going just finishing the poc stage will be a few months!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: steffire3 on November 17, 2017, 08:08:06 AM
Thank you so much @Phanjam !!!  :)

I would absolutely enjoy having a template mod that can be the foundation of many new class mods!

I think my only request would be to set up the design so that adding extra affixes or linking to the Charge Bar will be relatively easy to understand and implement if possible!  ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 17, 2017, 01:10:32 PM
Yes defiitely @steffire3 ;) i will be posting as i learn, so hopefully it will be easier to make tutorials when that time comes.
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 19, 2017, 01:35:37 PM
Hi guys! I got only a little done this weekend - I was able to make a working "skill container" inside the skilltree layout.  Yup that's all, sorry :D

Let's start with a nice tip.  It turns out when viewing a skilltreeoverride.layout in GUTS "UI" tab, you can copy-paste parts of the layout from the left-hand tree!

The GUTS "UI" tab view
(https://i.imgur.com/u70cdNC.png)

Looking at the vanilla arbiter skilltreeoverride, it looked like i needed two items.  First, the little window which holds the skill icon...

(https://i.imgur.com/DD3gMp6.png)

and second, the little plus sign to invest skill points...

(https://i.imgur.com/fb11KDK.png)

So i opened two instances of GUTS - in one instance i opened the vanilla arbiter skilltreeoverride and in the other i opened my custom skilltreeoverride.  Then from the vanilla instance i selected the items i wanted (one at a time) and copy-pasted them over to the custom instance.

(https://i.imgur.com/aRzxOaG.png)

It took a few seconds but they eventually appeared in the custom tree!  Then I just drag-&-dropped them under their proper "parent" items in the custom skilltreeoverride and adjusted their properties setting (in the right-hand panel), like setting the skill "widget" to point to my new "Fighter Training" skill.

And i got this 8)

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/ZiIe3Ys.png)

Another reason it took me so long to get only this far was i forgot to include the new "fighter skill" i made in the list of [SKILL]s in the unit's .DAT file.  Until i thought of that, the skill tooltip was just showing the template and i was going crazy thinking what was wrong :D As usual it was just another simple error!

Now to plot the rest of the skills and make sure the unlocking works smoothly ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: steffire3 on November 20, 2017, 07:54:47 PM
Thank you so much @Phanjam as this makes learning how to mod in guts much easier !!!  :)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on November 24, 2017, 01:59:30 AM
Hey @Phanjam , you managed to get me back here:)
At least Iím following the threat, helping out as much as I can and sharing with you my files...
Let me know/see your UI progress so i can jump in. I remember scaling issues and somehow I fixed them but so Iím sure we will find a way for you files too
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 24, 2017, 02:06:13 PM
Hi @lolesch ! Thanks so much for sharing your precious time. I am hoping its simple for u so it wont take much time :P but i request pls try to teach me how its done, not just do it for me since that wouldnt be fair to u and i also want to learn :)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on November 25, 2017, 02:44:33 PM
I'll keep the conversation over here, trying to explain as much as possible (I dont use discord and dropbox doesn't support chatting the same way we can do it here)

First of all I would say everything you pointed out is totally doable (and most of it has already been done)
When you'r modding the UI elements you need a solid imagination of how it shall look like in the end! I recommend sketches or photoshop montages. This preparation can save a lot of time as soon as you got familiar with the UI elements in guts! For this I guess it will need a tutorial at a certain point since there are so many options to handle these elements...
For example the "Group"-folder is more or less for invisible elements like logic, controllers and statwatchers, etc.
Always use the "Window" element to group visible things. this parent window just need a size but no image so it is more like a placeholder.

When I'm modding UI I clone the file (in this case the skilltreeoverride) and inside the file I coppy paste everything into a "Window" element with the name "Original" with visibility - false. This way I can doublecheck how it was done originally and copy anything I need without reopening the base file.
IMPORTANT: sometimes there is a conflict with logic groups since the dublicated i.e. Button is not linked to anything...

Just to make sure... you do use the UIScale tool from the GUTS Utilities? This is a must have when you edit UI :)

have you noticed that investing in that skill will make you suffer damage? I guess the "deal physical damage" has to be redirected :P

so far so good... what was the question btw? ah yeah, the moving UI elements... may you point them out again?
I would recommend to keep locations clean and mathematical. I neary never use the "SCALE HIGHT/WIDTH" property since it is based on your screen resolution and much harder to keep "in place". Next big thing is that the guts editor does not show the "correct" resolution of objects larger then "whatever" pixel so you need to mesure the right position with photoshop or trial and error between guts editor and "in game mode"
Depending on the objects position I often choose between top center bot right center left - and from there I can offset the next object for its own width and a few spacer pixels (was that understandable?)

I feel like I need a more precise question for more detailed answers  -  8)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 27, 2017, 05:53:35 AM
Quote from: lolesch
When you're modding the UI elements you need a solid imagination of how it shall look like in the end! I recommend sketches or photoshop montages. This preparation can save a lot of time as soon as you got familiar with the UI elements in guts! For this I guess it will need a tutorial at a certain point since there are so many options to handle these elements...

Hi @lolesch

I realized how correct you are with this statement and how critical it is to working precisely on a UI mod.  So i tried hard to make a vision which I won't be ashamed to show to you :D So here it is...

Figure 1 shows the widened skilltree in the UI with some sample skills on it.  I think it should be as close as possible to the vanilla art and other layout elements so that other layouts don't need to be adjusted.  I take responsibility to make all the art pieces to be used in the layout.

Figure 1
(https://i.imgur.com/DOZBn1A.jpg)

Training Skills
Highlighted in blue is the "training skills" area.  The training skill is like the base skill for a particular player-style (fighter, caster, rogue, etc.).  So the multiple tabs on top will switch you between the skilltrees of the different player-styles, and each style will have its own training skill.

Training skills will most likely be passive skills that grant bonuses helpful for their particular style and I think it's okay to go up to level 15.  But in my design I will make each level a separate skill, so that any one of them can be defined as a requirement for unlocking another skill (because I don't know if this can be done with a multi-level skill).

Even though they are separate skills, the display of the training skills can be simpler than full icons to save space (in figure 1, i made them just small buttons).  The training skill levels will unlock in sequence (level 1 unlocks level 2 and so on).  As you invest in each level, a simple artwork color change can indicate which level you already reached.

Skill Unlocking
The idea is that a given skill in the main section above the training skill area can require that you have invested in a certain level of the training skill before the given skill is "unlocked".  Figure 2 shows ideas for how the UI can display the various "states" of a skill.

Figure 2
(https://i.imgur.com/2QqgXvB.jpg)


Skill Display
Whether the skill is locked or unlocked i think the player should still see the tooltip describing the skill.  Figure 3 shows an idea for the skill tooltip

Figure 3
(https://i.imgur.com/MDuCBNH.jpg)

These "main skills" could be active or passive and they could be multi-level ( [LEVEL1]...[LEVELn] ).  So ideally the tooltip will show the "current level" / "next level" descriptions like the vanilla game.

What is different from the vanilla skills is I'm planning the main skills will not have any tier bonuses (if the skill will "evolve" to a stronger version, I will make it a new skill instead).  Also it is ideal if the tooltip can show the required level of the training skill needed to unlock the skill (encircled in blue in Figure 3 above).

Finally, it would be ideal if each training skill level could also have a tooltip (although there's no need to show "current / next").

More Tips from lolesch!
For example the "Group"-folder is more or less for invisible elements like logic, controllers and statwatchers, etc.  Always use the "Window" element to group visible things. this parent window just need a size but no image so it is more like a placeholder.

When I'm modding UI I clone the file (in this case the skilltreeoverride) and inside the file I coppy paste everything into a "Window" element with the name "Original" with visibility - false. This way I can doublecheck how it was done originally and copy anything I need without reopening the base file.

IMPORTANT: sometimes there is a conflict with logic groups since the dublicated i.e. Button is not linked to anything...

Thanks very much for these tips!

Just to make sure... you do use the UIScale tool from the GUTS Utilities? This is a must have when you edit UI :)

Uh... i don't know!  ::) what is that? lol!

Have you noticed that investing in that skill will make you suffer damage? I guess the "deal physical damage" has to be redirected :P

Yes thanks I was able to fix that and put it into the dropbox folder ;)

I would recommend to keep locations clean and mathematical. I nearly never use the "SCALE HIGHT/WIDTH" property since it is based on your screen resolution and much harder to keep "in place".

Haha! Yes i noticed this - I think this is the cause of the "moving elements" i mentioned.

Next big thing is that the guts editor does not show the "correct" resolution of objects larger then "whatever" pixel so you need to mesure the right position with photoshop or trial and error between guts editor and "in game mode"
Depending on the objects position I often choose between top center bot right center left - and from there I can offset the next object for its own width and a few spacer pixels (was that understandable?)

Thanks again for these tips too!

Again lolesch i am really really grateful for your expert help but i think the work should be "even" as much as possible, which is why I want to take responsibility for the images (at least that I can do!).  Also I would like to actually learn this, so I ask pls be patient with me if I'm slow on something which you could do in a minute or less :D !

I am really excited about working on this mod!  Thanks again!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on November 27, 2017, 01:58:47 PM
Hey phan, good progress!
you do great. If you need help with some images let me know, though I really appreciate your ambition to do it all by your own :D
When I was working on that mod I had some different things in mind but since it newer came to the light it is good to have you here.
Quote
Just to make sure... you do use the UIScale tool from the GUTS Utilities? This is a must have when you edit UI :)

Uh... i don't know!  ::) what is that? lol!
was that irony? It's a tool to zoom in and out and reposition your working screen.
ah and do you know you can use the arrow keys to adjust image positions? I'm sure you will figure it out ;)

Quote
I will make each level a separate skill, so that any one of them can be defined as a requirement for unlocking another skill (because I don't know if this can be done with a multi-level skill).

each level of the training skill could add a stat to the player that can be used as an requirement to unlock your main skills.
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Zayn Malik on November 27, 2017, 05:49:27 PM
LOL @Phanjam  I see some item in DOTA I here  ??? Manta Style, Morbid Mask, Boots of Speed, Crytalys,..
Your work is becoming brilliant day by day

This makes my day LOL  :D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 28, 2017, 04:45:52 AM
LOL @Phanjam  I see some item in DOTA I here  ??? Manta Style, Morbid Mask, Boots of Speed, Crytalys,..
Haha yeah i wanted the concept art to "feel different", so i used any icons i could find on the web instead of the TL2 icons (didnt even know which game they were from).

In the final version, the icons will probably be just resized versions of the TL2 ones (if i feel adventurous i'll try to make originals ;) )
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 28, 2017, 06:05:02 AM
Quote from: lolesch
...though I really appreciate your ambition to do it all by your own :D

Not really ambition, i just want to feel that i have done my part for the UI :)

Quote from: lolesch
was that irony? It's a tool to zoom in and out and reposition your working screen.
ah and do you know you can use the arrow keys to adjust image positions? I'm sure you will figure it out ;)

I found it! :D  now my workspace looks like this...

(https://i.imgur.com/dW0o2oI.jpg)

This is muuuch better, thanks so much!  and yes i noticed i can move items using the arrow keys for finer control ;)

Layout Composition

Quote from: lolesch
Depending on the objects position I often choose between top center bot right center left - and from there I can offset the next object for its own width and a few spacer pixels (was that understandable?)

Okay i think this tip is the key to my "moving elements" problem. Can u give me a few more "how to" tips about this so i can experiment/learn with them?  like...


UI Logics

Quote from: lolesch
each level of the training skill could add a stat to the player that can be used as an requirement to unlock your main skills.

Okay i can see how this could work.  But the method for skills unlocking i have been working with is the one used  by @gytfunke originally...

(https://i.imgur.com/7dEzTIU.jpg)

I think if the trigger is a player stat, i will have to use different inputs/outputs? Can u give me some tips here pls?

Quote from: lolesch
When I was working on that mod I had some different things in mind but since it newer came to the light it is good to have you here.

Well i didnt really think this idea of mine is a continuation of your concepts (which seemed too advanced for me :D ); i just had these ideas and i wanted to see if i could make something with them.
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 28, 2017, 02:56:51 PM
hey @lolesch ! I spent the whole day trying to apply your tips :P i still do mostly trial and error but your tips gave me good direction.

In fact i was able to make this...

Classless Skilltree In-game
(https://i.imgur.com/Alfb9vf.jpg)

This is in-game already and it appears stable so far.  Thanks so much for those tips!

From here i was planning to start experimenting with skill unlocking, at least for the "training skill" section first. 

So i guess now i should decide whether to go "all separate skills" OR "multi-level skill with stat-watchers".  Can i get your opinion about this pls?

About the Tooltip
Will the choice of separate skill/multi-level skill affect what we can do with the tooltip?

I was thinking the standard skill tooltip doesnt look good for the training skills - each tooltip will always show "rank 1/1", or hovering over each mini-icon pops up the same looking tooltip every time and the tooltip is too big, etc, etc. :D what do you think?

Or an alternative would be to just keep clicking the first skill icon/plus sign, and have a "progress bar" that keeps extending to the right.  Is that possible/advisable?

Again thanks so much lolesch!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 28, 2017, 03:18:05 PM
oh a quick question pls!

In aligning the training skill icon, I had to mis-align it in GUTS  :o

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/uiBg7pm.png)

is it something about the parent, or alignment, or both?
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on November 28, 2017, 07:42:28 PM
In aligning the training skill icon, I had to mis-align it in GUTS  :o
is it something about the parent, or alignment, or both?

this is what I've mentioned before, GUTS does not show the correct size of the background image (is is bigger in-game then it appears in GUTS) so you have to "mis-align" things. For example in the Stats menu the Stat Points to spend are outside the Background Image but ingame they are at the right location... this is weird but works out
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on November 28, 2017, 09:43:38 PM
  • the "skill window" ui element is not that wide when u look at it in GUTS, but in-game it is wide! which property should i adjust so the GUTS view looks more like in-game?
  • The "background" ui element is a child of the "skill window" ui element and they have the same width (narrow in GUTS).  But because it "expands" in-game, i had to shrink the left-to-right dimension of the background image so it would also expand in-game >:( Very un-intuitive and a nightmare to adjust!  What am i doing wrong here pls?

hm.. let me start this way: when you run TL2 in min resolution (800x600) and the UI-Scale set to 100% you still be able to have both menu sides open. This is why the menu buttons are on a different height (else they would overlap).
Any changes in menu size will result in overlapping BUT only in min resolution and 100% scale! I guess the majority will play in a higher resolution and prefer 90-80% UI scale so it should be fine.

The vanilla menu size is 715x510, I guess you would be fine with 715x765 or something like that.
I've seen your file is larger then the size you set in guts, so I decided to quickly adjust that... Its in the dropbox now (i've uploaded the photoshop file too so you might have a look how Ive done it)

To test it out I've cloned your skilltreeoverride and filled in my piece but I noticed wrong locations here and there so I copied the vanilla skilltree and pasted it right into my skilltree. they were ofcorse overlapping so I've set the visibility to false. from there I went through all the major elements and double-checked the size and offsets.

You still had a lot of elements with scaling properties so I fixed them and relocated the buttons aund windows with XnY offset. Mainly by copying the vanilla values and adjusting the width here and there.

now the background image fits perfectly - though it still appears too small in GUTS - this is where you might need photoshop creating a collage of your element like in GUTS and mesure their position, then head over to guts and place them there, even if they wont fit with the background (for the moment - in game they will!).
#EDIT will upload it too so you can have a look. though the imagesize is not optimal! the menu is called Skilltree_lolesch and you have to bind it to the unittype but you know that :)

Quote
  • I notice when you move a "window" all items inside the window move together.  So when setting offset, do i offset against the parent window or something else?  does their alignment setting affect this?
  • can different items have different alignment settings? like some are left, some are right / or do they all have to use the same alignment setting?
Yeah, "windows" are containers, moving to will move the inside too. You always offset to the parent and use the alignments so left, top with x=10 y=10 will move it right and down. right, center with x=-10 y=10 will move it right and down ;)
The alignment is the corner you start from. positive numbers will move in the opposite direction, negatives in the same... I never made that clear to myself in that way but I guess you got it.
Different Items can have different alignments, yes! I recommend to use the same alignments for same elements, lets say all your skills, because if you adjust the parent window size elements using the top left will move in the opposite direction the elements using bottom right. Relatively tho their "corner" they do keep the offset.


sorry for not going into UI Logic so far... I will give some light there as soon as possible. As well as for the tooltip (wich is UI so you can mod it :) the UI skill properties direct to it)
I'd do a multilevel skill - feels more comfortable to me but you are the skill master not me :)
Quote
About the Tooltip
Will the choice of separate skill/multi-level skill affect what we can do with the tooltip?
yes. and no. the tooltip reads through the skills actual level. so different level with different affixes will result in different tooltips - no need of different skills here.

Quote
I was thinking the standard skill tooltip doesnt look good for the training skills - each tooltip will always show "rank 1/1", or hovering over each mini-icon pops up the same looking tooltip every time and the tooltip is too big, etc, etc. :D what do you think?
totally manageable. as said above you can mod the tooltip itself/create a now tooltip just for the training skill.
Quote
Or an alternative would be to just keep clicking the first skill icon/plus sign, and have a "progress bar" that keeps extending to the right.  Is that possible/advisable?
I like it. but you can also remove the tooltips from the buttons and just ad a hover description so the tooltip only shows up on the "training skill icon" and the further buttons just say something like "increase trainingskill" or so.
this way you would need a multi-level-skill!

this is just written in a hurry, sorry. always happy to answer your questions (hope i did answer most of them) and keep me updated!
lolesch
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on November 28, 2017, 10:05:51 PM
ah, and for your logic and stat controls... I found this:
http://torchmodders.com/forums/classless-character-concept-(new)/mod-directionvision/msg3063/#msg3063

Logic is confusing in the beginning so text me if you get stuck
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 29, 2017, 08:27:49 AM
this is what I've mentioned before, GUTS does not show the correct size of the background image (is is bigger in-game then it appears in GUTS) so you have to "mis-align" things.

Okay, got it and thanks ;)

I've seen your file is larger then the size you set in guts, so I decided to quickly adjust that... Its in the dropbox now (i've uploaded the photoshop file too so you might have a look how Ive done it)

To test it out I've cloned your skilltreeoverride and filled in my piece but I noticed wrong locations here . . . I went through all the major elements and double-checked the size and offsets.

You still had a lot of elements with scaling properties so I fixed them and relocated the buttons aund windows with XnY offset. Mainly by copying the vanilla values and adjusting the width here and there.

now the background image fits perfectly - though it still appears too small in GUTS - this is where you might need photoshop creating a collage of your element like in GUTS and mesure their position, then head over to guts and place them there, even if they wont fit with the background

Thanks so much lolesch!  I also ended up adjusting the size of my background image (I went with 715h x 900w) and with your tips from the previous posts I think I was able to get the alignments and offsets mostly right, so things fit better and it became more stable!

will upload it too so you can have a look. though the imagesize is not optimal! the menu is called Skilltree_lolesch and you have to bind it to the unittype but you know that :)

You mean a new skilltreeoverride.layout file with your edits?  That would be really helpful for double-checking myself for errors, thanks very much!

I'd do a multilevel skill - feels more comfortable to me but you are the skill master not me :)

Quote from: phanjam
Or an alternative would be to just keep clicking the first skill icon/plus sign, and have a "progress bar" that keeps extending to the right.  Is that possible/advisable?

I like it. but you can also remove the tooltips from the buttons and just ad a hover description so the tooltip only shows up on the "training skill icon" and the further buttons just say something like "increase trainingskill" or so.  this way you would need a multi-level-skill!

Yes, I would prefer this kind of presentation, it seems more efficient ;) So, multi-level skill it is!  And I will now make some alternate artworks for a skill "progress bar"  8)

ah, and for your logic and stat controls... I found this:
http://torchmodders.com/forums/classless-character-concept-(new)/mod-directionvision/msg3063/#msg3063

Skill Unlocking Logic by lolesch
(http://i.imgur.com/HqAbgro.png)

Thanks so much for reminding about this post!  I think I can grasp the logic enough to see how it works.

So the green "TxSx Req" items on the left will be a required value for a dynamic-stat given at each skill level?
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 29, 2017, 10:42:23 AM
Yes, I would prefer this kind of presentation, it seems more efficient ;) So, multi-level skill it is!  And I will now make some alternate artworks for a skill "progress bar"  8)

Okay this is what I came up with...

Alternate "Progress Bar" Skilltree
(https://i.imgur.com/emQt2oE.jpg)

When you have no skill points the red plus will not show, revealing the "gray" plus underneath (in the image).

There are 15 progress slots; the idea is to just overlay a colored image on the slots as you invest.


Critique is welcome ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 29, 2017, 05:05:18 PM
Skill Unlocking Logic by lolesch
(http://i.imgur.com/HqAbgro.png)

So the green "TxSx Req" items on the left will be a required value for a dynamic-stat given at each skill level?

Okay based on the logic I assumed the "main skills" will evaluate if a certain STAT is at level "x" before displaying the plus button.

So I made the "Fighter Training Skill" a 15-level skill and put a SET STAT [EFFECT] in each level , like this...

Code: [Select]
	[LEVEL1]
[EVENT_START]
[EFFECTS]
[EFFECT]
<STRING>NAME:FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL
<STRING>ACTIVATION:DYNAMIC
<STRING>DURATION:INSTANT
<STRING>TYPE:SET STAT
<FLOAT>MIN:1
<FLOAT>MAX:1
<FLOAT>CHANCE:100
[/EFFECT]
[/EFFECTS]
[AFFIXES]
<STRING>TARGET:SELF
<STRING>AFFIX:CLASSLESS_FIGHTER_TRAINING_01
<INTEGER>AFFIXLEVEL:1
[/AFFIXES]
[/EVENT_START]
[EVENT_END]
[AFFIXESREMOVE]
<STRING>TARGET:SELF
<STRING>AFFIX:CLASSLESS_FIGHTER_TRAINING_01
[/AFFIXESREMOVE]
[/EVENT_END]
[/LEVEL1]

Succeeding skill levels will re-set the MIN/MAX so that by level 15 the FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL stat will be equal to 15.

And this is the STAT .DAT...

Code: [Select]
[STAT]
<STRING>NAME:FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL
<INTEGER64>UNIQUE_GUID:2524506058930012224
<STRING>TYPE:TYPE_INT
<BOOL>SAVES:true
<FLOAT>MINVALUE:-1
<FLOAT>MAXVALUE:15
<FLOAT>DEFAULTVALUE:-1
<FLOAT>VALUE:-1
[/STAT]

@lolesch I will try to use this set-up now inside the skill unlocking logic you shared, but if you (or anyone else ;) ) see any trouble with the code please let me know!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on November 29, 2017, 07:59:18 PM
Actually the logic was made for unlocking different skills. So your training skill has a set stat or add stat affix and the „main“ skills will require whatever value of that. In the UI they are disabled until the evaluator is true and you will be able to invest a skill point.
In other words, the logic I posted was planed without a trainingskill, just unlocking skills in order.
I will think of the „correct“ logic for your desire.

Have you added more skills jet? So I can use them instead of blank theorycrafting.
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on November 30, 2017, 02:21:40 AM
Hi @lolesch ok i understand and thx mucho for helping re-plan the logic!

Have you added more skills jet? So I can use them instead of blank theorycrafting.

Haha ok i will shift focus now to making a few fighter skills :D give me a day or 2 for that.

Thanks!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on November 30, 2017, 06:56:54 PM
just a little input:
You can also create a rollover like in the stats menu. these are simple and can display player stats but won't read through the skill info.
might be a possible solution for the progress bar so hovering will show a window with further information like:
Code: [Select]
 <skill-level-stat> of 15 
 investing in this skill will unlock "main skills"
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 01, 2017, 05:37:23 AM
Spamming the forum :)
I found myself modding again. Your work inspired me to get back to my classless mod. It’s slightly different since I plan to use the attributes (Str. Dex. Foc. Vit.) to unlock skills and I’d prefer to lokale them on a map (like in PoE).
I‘ve reworked the stats already so soon I could go into skill crafting.
This is where I might need your help learning a few more things :)

My concept replaces the attributes with
%attack speed
%cast speed
Physical Dmg
Magical Dmg
You have to invest in these to unlock skills fitting to the stats. Ofcorse you can/should combine at least 2 of them.
I’m not finished with the theory crafting but 90% of it is done so soon I will start with the skills. I’d love to have some skills empowering each other. I have some ideas for that but it’s all still in the blue.
Before that I need to figure out a few “bugs” with the stats overhaul.

Gonna post about this concept more detailed soon.
Cheers
lolesch
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 01, 2017, 06:10:40 AM
Quote from: lolesch
I found myself modding again. Your work inspired me to get back to my classless mod.
Itís slightly different since I plan to use the attributes (Str. Dex. Foc. Vit.) to unlock skills and Iíd prefer to lokale them on a map (like in PoE).

Well i feel good being a part of your decision @lolesch !  I remember your POE-style skill map idea and that is really exciting!

My unlocking mechanics is really just a copy of the grim dawn/titan quest mechanics  ::)

Quote from: lolesch
IĎve reworked the stats already so soon I could go into skill crafting.
This is where I might need your help learning a few more things :)

I will happily help you in any way i can!  You only need to ask ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 01, 2017, 06:25:50 AM
Quote from: Phanjam
Haha ok i will shift focus now to making a few fighter skills :D give me a day or 2 for that.

Okay i placed files for 3 new skills in the DropBox folder (you probably received the comments/notifications by now)

So now along with the multi-level "fighter training skill" there is also:
I haven't fully tested them but they are all basically copies of pre-existing skills, so they should work :D

I also uploaded a new image file for the skill tree with a separate graphic for the training area...

Skilltree Components Image
(https://i.imgur.com/YuJF7qP.jpg)

I hope it helps in aligning the graphic elements for the "progress bar" style of the training skill area ;)

?Question: Should I also separate that big metal plate for the "main skills area" to make alignment easier?

You can also create a rollover like in the stats menu. these are simple and can display player stats but won't read through the skill info.

Thanks for this lolesch! I think it could be used in the main skills area for the "Required level of the training skill" message, when a skill is still locked.

Let's keep inspiring each other! :D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 02, 2017, 03:45:44 AM
Hey @Phanjam, I looked into your skills and placed them in the UI. Inside the main skills window is an Imagestate element. you have set the current state to -1 -> change that to 0 and set the parent skill window to visible but disabled. this way you can see the "?" icon

Is there a reason you want to hide the skills you are able to unlock later? IMO the player should be able to read through to decide if he wants to invest into fighter tree or more into another tree because he knows what to expect there...

anyways,
Quote
I also uploaded a new image file for the skill tree with a separate graphic for the training area...
?Question: Should I also separate that big metal plate for the "main skills area" to make alignment easier?
this looks great! I have not figured out what size an image can be without being scaled down. It might help to separate it. though we might try to set it up like this:
Code: [Select]
backgroudimage
   Mainskill_window (top left)
      Mainskill 1 (offset with pixel calculation or trial and error...)
      mainskill 2...
   trainingskill_window (bottom left)
      trainingskill (left center)
meanwhile I've added an effect to your affixes (cuz i dont like to use effects in the skill editor...)
each affix has now an
effectname-fightertrainlevel AddStat min-1 max-1 chance-100 INSTANT saves-true
since the stat saves the next level affix just need to add 1 even if the affix before was removed.
It works fine with investing but I noticed I get 2 additional fightertrainlevel stats when I unse the console command "levelup". I could not relocate where these stats are comming from! havnt tested it in game though, just in guts game mode.

since you wanted to learn these things by yourself I will leave you with that. I can upload it on demand  :D or post the code here...

one more thing about that stat: you dont need to fill in all the cells like max value.
Code: [Select]
[STAT]
<STRING>NAME:FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL
<INTEGER64>UNIQUE_GUID:2524506058930012224
<TRANSLATE>DISPLAYNAME:Fighter Training Level
<STRING>TYPE:TYPE_INT
<BOOL>SAVES:true
[/STAT]
this should work
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 02, 2017, 06:06:21 AM
Thanks so much again @lolesch for all this help! I will honor ur teaching by putting it to good use :D

Is there a reason you want to hide the skills you are able to unlock later? IMO the player should be able to read through to decide if he wants to invest into fighter tree or more into another tree because he knows what to expect there...

Ah no, i had intended for all the skills and their tooltips to be visible at all times. It should be only the plus-sign that is hidden when the stat evaluates "false".

I will try to figure out the imagestate controls to make it this way. But i was thinking of doing it the same way i did the training skill (show/hide the plus-sign, but the skill itself is still visible). If i get stuck i'll shout for help :D

meanwhile I've added an effect to your affixes (cuz i dont like to use effects in the skill editor...)
each affix has now an

Code: [Select]
effectname-fightertrainlevel 
AddStat min-1 max-1
chance-100
INSTANT
saves-true

since the stat saves the next level affix just need to add 1 even if the affix before was removed.

Thanks for this lolesch!  I checked the files in DropBox but your edits are not there yet.  Is this the code you used?

Code: [Select]
	[EFFECT]
<STRING>NAME:fightertrainlevel
<STRING>ACTIVATION:DYNAMIC
<STRING>DURATION:INSTANT
<STRING>TYPE:ADD STAT
<FLOAT>MIN:1
<FLOAT>MAX:1
<FLOAT>CHANCE:100
<BOOL>SAVE:true
[/EFFECT]
If correct, I'll add it to the affixes on my end ;)

It works fine with investing but I noticed I get 2 additional fightertrainlevel stats when I unse the console command "levelup". I could not relocate where these stats are comming from! havnt tested it in game though, just in guts game mode.

Okay i'll see if i can fix that / will check in-game too.

one more thing about that stat: you dont need to fill in all the cells like max value.
Code: [Select]
	[STAT]
<STRING>NAME:FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL
<INTEGER64>UNIQUE_GUID:2524506058930012224
<TRANSLATE>DISPLAYNAME:Fighter Training Level
<STRING>TYPE:TYPE_INT
<BOOL>SAVES:true
[/STAT]
this should work

Thanks very much for this tip too!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 02, 2017, 01:14:52 PM
Hi @lolesch !

Okay I have made some progress.  I placed the Primal Slam (FIGHTER_2H_AOE.DAT) skill in the main area and named it "Fighter Active 1" in the tree.  Then from the Logic Timer I added a Logic Gate named "Fighter Active 1 Req" with settings...

(https://i.imgur.com/jDmcFKS.png)

I set the Logic so that the dynamic stat FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL > or = 5 will Activate/Deactivate the Plus Sign element, like this...

(https://i.imgur.com/4pnXOaT.png)

("Plus Fighter Active 1" is the name of the Plus Sign element in the tree)

When GUTS starts it looks fine...

In GUTS
(https://i.imgur.com/k1chNE1.png)

But when i've invested 5 points in Fighter Training, what happens is the plus sign for the Primal Slam skill disappears!

I'll keep testing but I posted this because i'm hoping you might know what the problem is already :P
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 02, 2017, 02:16:35 PM
the only thing that pops up in my head is a wrong/no image linked to the button enabled state!?
else I would need your latest file to go through myself I think
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 02, 2017, 03:47:01 PM
the only thing that pops up in my head is a wrong/no image linked to the button enabled state!?
else I would need your latest file to go through myself I think

That makes a lot of sense actually.  I'll check it out now, thanks!

I also uploaded all the latest files to dropbox, in case you have some time to look ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 02, 2017, 04:36:44 PM
hey phan, downloaded your files
like the UI scale there is another tool you might know actually! the plyer effect and stat watcher.
when I invest in the training skill the stat is not applied to the player so the button cant be enabled.
must be an error in the stat or skill

Edit# I went through the skill and there is no "addStat" - there you go :D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 03, 2017, 02:38:23 AM
Thanks @lolesch ! I'll put the ADDSTAT effect back into the skill then.  I had moved it into the AFFIX but i guess its not working from there.

In the .LAYOUT i also tried TOGGLEVISIBILITY as an input to the plus-sign element but that didnt work either :P More testing ahead!

Thanks again!

EDIT ;)

haha! Moved the addstat back to the skill and its working now. I used the Enable/Disable inputs.

Just one minor glitch - when u increment the stat by 1 the Enabled state flashes on (plus-sign flashes red) for a half-second. Very minor but it breaks the "immersion" :D. Can u suggest any workarounds for this?

Thanks!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 03, 2017, 04:50:10 AM
Try it with the timer time set to 0.1
Also I was rethinking the add stat vs set stat in terms of a respec. In other words, if you respect the training skill, how will the stat get decreased?

For the training bar, have you created an anchor jet? Iíd love to see it in action. You will need an image with gaps in it like itís used in the vanilla skills with 3 tiers. Or the xp bar fill in.
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 03, 2017, 05:13:52 AM
Quote from: lolesch
Try it with the timer time set to 0.1

aHa! Thks thks i will try that

Quote from: lolesch
Also I was rethinking the add stat vs set stat in terms of a respec. In other words, if you respect the training skill, how will the stat get decreased?

Youre right. At some point this mod should have its own respec solution to allow respec without breaking the character. But maybe thats something that can wait for later.

Quote from: lolesch
For the training bar, have you created an anchor jet? Iíd love to see it in action. You will need an image with gaps in it like itís used in the vanilla skills with 3 tiers. Or the xp bar fill in.

:D We think alike! I already started making one - im excited to test/see that too!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 03, 2017, 09:29:00 AM
Okay the timer change to 0.1 helped a lot. it still flashes for a split second, but it is much less bothersome :D thanks @lolesch

Ah and the progress bar is in place!  But there are minor glitches...

Progress Bar

On the first click it seems the stretch to the right ends too early...

(https://i.imgur.com/AA4AV98.png)

It gets corrected by about level 5...

(https://i.imgur.com/EiPqBnr.png)

But then it over-extends by level 7 or 8...

(https://i.imgur.com/R0Yevjn.png)

By level 15 it's okay, needs minor image adjusting only...

(https://i.imgur.com/1eqtfrj.png)

These are the settings for the progress bar element...

(https://i.imgur.com/XdhefcP.png)

Do you see anything i should adjust?

But i'm really happy it's in place and working! :D Thanks again lolesch!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 03, 2017, 02:31:30 PM
I was able to fix the progress bar display glitches ;)  It was just the width dimension of the progress bar widget itself had to match exactly the width of the anchor image.

So now i started trying to place more skills in the main skills area.  I uploaded my latest batch of mod files to the dropbox folder.

I will take some time now to plan-out the skills for the Fighter tree :o then come back to placing them on the skilltree. 

I feel pretty good about the mod progress this weekend  8) Thanks so much again @lolesch !
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 04, 2017, 12:33:22 AM
I was able to fix the progress bar display glitches ... I feel pretty good about the mod progress this weekend
Gratz Phanjam! This is the moment you should change the topics title ;) Yeah, it feels much faster then planning all alone.. I was ill so I had a lot of time to help out but I see you got used to it very fast so you will need me only from time to time I think.
meanwhile I was able to get my stats overhaul to work (big shout out to @gytfunke !)
this is the statsmenu
(https://i.imgur.com/TivyYhy.jpg)
I will use these as a skillrequirement and I managed to create a solid mindset of skills I want to arrange on my skills map so we are at an equal point, haha.
looking forward to your concept while I try to get the basic setup done over here
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 04, 2017, 03:16:55 PM
Hey @lolesch thanks!  I'm not 100% sure what you mean by changing the topic title, but my guess is to avoid confusion between this concept of a classless character (titan quest style) and your stats-driven classless concept, which is the main topic of this mod sub-forum! :D If it's okay with you, I can move this to its own mod sub-forum and call it "Titan Quest Style Skills Mod" or something like that.

Yes I'm getting more comfortable working with the UI and that's thanks to your help and encouragement for which I'm realy grateful!  It's okay if you have less time for this; being able to still ask you for some tips every now and then is fine for me ;)

And I do want to return the favor, so if there's any way you think I can help in your mod just let me know.  Your stats menu looks exciting!  I can't wait to play the alpha!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 04, 2017, 03:26:41 PM
Hey @lolesch thanks!  I'm not 100% sure what you mean by changing the topic title
"POC" - I guess we are behind proofing now ;) It is a concept we can work on! you can move it where ever you want to have it, or leave it here, I'm fine with that.
thanks for offering your help too, I might get back to that!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 04, 2017, 03:33:41 PM
"POC" - I guess we are behind proofing now ;) It is a concept we can work on!
Okay senpai i understand now what you meant :D I'll leave it here though, since it is a spin-off of the base classless concept.  Thanks!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 05, 2017, 12:46:56 AM
Kōhai @Phanjam ;) I need your help.
Do you have the lure of ember files? the skill menu there had an horizontal scroll bar and as much as I try I cant set it up. Only vertical works... I would like to have a look in that menu file. the code should be all i need...
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 05, 2017, 02:07:08 PM
Yes i still have it! Give me a moment, need to start my pc.

EDIT

Okay this is what I have...

Lure of Ember unpacked MEDIA folder (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2aVtkeuHrtcZG1wV2VYVXhXTVk/view?usp=sharing)

In case it doesn't have what you need, @gytfunke 's original post (http://torchmodders.com/forums/lure-of-ember-tc-public-board/lure-of-ember-mod-files/msg1734/#msg1734) to share the files is here.  He placed his Lure of Ember .MOD file on RGF (http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/mod_downloads/compilations-tl2/download-630-lure-ember.html).
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 05, 2017, 02:52:06 PM
Muchas gracias my friend, Iíll check it later when Iím on my pc
The RGF link somehow stoped downloading every time I tried to get it from there.
Happy Birthday btw. Glad to have you around! Have a nice day and may your mods all come true ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 05, 2017, 03:00:01 PM
Haha! no problem @lolesch ;) happy to help!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 10, 2017, 02:51:09 AM
Ok i believe its worth an update... Here is the current state of the Fighter tree...

SKills Masteries Skilltree
(https://i.imgur.com/U5yOjH4.png)

Its about halfway done. Skill unlocking seems stable so far. All art is not final:D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 10, 2017, 10:19:07 AM
Fixed that curtain behind the skilltree not going all the way to the right ;) and added the top and bottom crests...

Skills Masteries Skilltree
(https://i.imgur.com/htTPqCG.png)

and in-game...

(https://i.imgur.com/4erNPzF.jpg)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 15, 2017, 09:21:49 AM
Sorry, false alarm!!!

I tried reverting back to an earlier version of the mod and it seemed to fix the problem (tho i don't really know what caused it ::) )  :-[ sorry to bother!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
well it seems i managed to screw-up the display of the curtain behind the stats panel :D

for some reason, the curtain now extends beyond the right edge of the stats panel...


bad curtain!
when just the stats panel is open...
(https://i.imgur.com/LbiI4cq.jpg)

when both stats and skills panel are open...
(https://i.imgur.com/zCys7Sb.jpg)

I did modify the .MESH and textures used for the right curtain and for a while it worked fine.  But now it seems the left curtain is affected somehow  >:(

@lolesch i can't seem to figure out what i did wrong.  If okay with you, i posted the mod files in the shared DropBox folder and can I ask for some of your time to look inside pls?  Hope it's okay and thanks either way! ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 15, 2017, 07:39:20 PM
Hey @Phanjam
Most likely you messed up with the banner not linked to the timeline. The timeline will offset it and let it slide in when a menu is visable. If this is broken the banner wonít be offset.

You mentioned some other problems..?
Not sure about how much time I can offer this WE so detailed questions might be better then having me testing things in game.

Im looking forward for your banner modifications! The only thing I was changing was the image  - linked here (https://i.imgur.com/txGJQUc.png)

I still struggle wich the design for my skills map. Maybe I can get some progress by keeping it simple for now. Hope to give you some update soon
Cheerio
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 16, 2017, 11:40:43 AM
Thanks v much for that timeline tip @lolesch ! I will look into that to add itto my learning ;) that was basically the only problem i got.

Oh that banner artwork is really beautiful lolesch, it's going to look really great!

I finshed one tree finally! the "Fighter" tree.

TQ Skilltree Mod, 2017-12-16
(https://i.imgur.com/AerRUKe.jpg)

I am kind of tired of my mod right now, so i'd be happy to help with your skill designing.  I'll visit your thread to see what kind of help i can offer :)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: sephiawind on December 17, 2017, 12:30:05 AM
wow that's just look a like Titan Quest and Grim Dawn ... damn so cool  ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on December 17, 2017, 01:07:55 AM
I finshed one tree finally! the "Fighter" tree.

Hey phanjam, I've played your mod and its quit fun! I love that shovel in the beguinning. Skills seem a little overpowered (wich was part of the fun) though I felt like I have wasted skillpoints after reaching the requirement for the II tier skill. Although I like the setup it feels poor on rewarding higher character level. when you hit that last skill you can opt it out but there's nothing to aim for after that...

Ideas: I'd give a bonus to the II and III tier skills based on how many skillpoints you spent on the lover tier skill. I personally dont like to use too many skills and I felt glad to replace a skill with the better one! but the tree has low variety to specialize in (1h vs 2h - lifesteal vs damage reduction...)
I think this way you can "only" choose between being a fighter or some other "class", nothing really decisional to choose from within the "fighter" tree.
enough of critic! ;) in total it is a solid system.

Bug: The top row III tier skill has an error I think. when you hit level 2 the damage is 24 or so. when you hit lvl 3 the damage is 138 and goes back low on lvl 4 invested in that skill...

EDIT: I run this before your update, "melee accuracy" was not included...
EDIT2: the button flashes are strange! Shall I go check what causes this anomaly?
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on December 17, 2017, 04:05:43 AM
Thanks @Sch123 yes im just copying that skill system :)

Thanks so much for the feedback @lolesch  ! I know the skill "flashes" youre talking about :D i was actually okay with them already, but if it bothers the perfectionist in you, pls be my guest to change it! :D

I'll fix the skill bug u mentioned, thanks. Also the curtain problem came back in my latest build  >:( but im sure i didnt touch any timeline! I'll try to fix-learn it ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on January 28, 2018, 10:20:08 AM
Im in the middle of the Caster skilltree in the "tq-style skills" mod. So far i have projectile skills (fireball, etc) and aoe skills and i will add some elemental shields and missile reflect shield and an escape skill like teleport.  I broke the attack skills up into elements to allow specialization in one or more of them if the player desires. Training passives are also available per element.

The damage mechanics are all flat DOTs atm, but im using the training skills as damage bonus modifiers. So if u invest in "fire training" then damage from fireball goes up much more quickly. Based on feedback in the discord i may change damage to instant to allow crits then add debuffs for lingering effects.

Training on an element will have the damage bonus benefit for any skill based on that element, and will even add some elemental damage to melee attacks (so u can build a battlemage frinstance). Ultimately i plan to have "reward skills" for maxing out a training element.

Thats for the caster tree. I finished a "fighter" tree (melee specialization) first bcos im more familiar with that.

Other trees in the plan:

Defender (shields and survivability)
Animancer (undead and spirit summons)
Engineer (mechanical summons)
Ranger (ranged weaps)
Rogue (speed and dualwielding)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on January 29, 2018, 04:09:49 PM
Wow, If this is complete, then there will be classes with all the existing tree classes in one class. Cool  :o
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on May 26, 2018, 12:13:51 AM
Call me necro...

How far you pushed the concept @Phanjam ?
I havenít worked on my mod but on the concept of zodiacal signs again
Curious to see one of these in action
Cheers mate
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on May 30, 2018, 04:18:41 PM
Hi @lolesch

Maybe you can see and try it CLASSLESSCHAR (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1349328432) :D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on May 31, 2018, 01:43:48 PM
Thx Sch! I really should update this thread  :o
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on June 03, 2018, 03:08:15 PM
okay i really should have been keeping this thread updated, sorry about that.  I'll start doing that now a little at a time, but i'll jump in at where the mod is at the moment which is 4 out 5 planned discipline trees in place.

Custom skilltree layout

So i'm using a custom skilltree background and I got a lot of help from @lolesch to reach the current stage of the mod, thanks senpai!

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/xUKALwK.png)

Like an image editor, the GUTS UI editor basically works on layers. You bring in graphic elements the same way you bring icons into the game - they have to be on a .IMAGESET file which the editor then reads in to the workspace.  But each element you bring in is controlled only via the Properties Panel on the right side of the UI editor.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/GlwuhIB.png)

and it took me a long time to figure out how to use the properties correctly to get elements to behave the way i wanted, which I won't discuss here because it will take too long (I'll try make that a tutorial instead).

Lolesch taught me to use the UITool which scales your view of the central workspace - on my 1920 x 1080 monitor the default view almost fills the center space making it difficult to work with. Th UITool is available near the bottom of the GUTS Utilities menu.

Oh and, very counter-intuitively, the UI editor does not display items in scale with each other! So you may have items that look mis-aligned in the editor, but then are actually aligned in-game.  So you can't eyeball stuff into place - you have to adjust item placing via their settings in the properties window.

One nice thing I learned is that you can copy-paste whole sections of UI elements to different parts of your skilltree, which was a big help.  So I ended making a template discipline tree (which is hidden), and which i just clone and activate when i want to setup a new discipline tree.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/oM7ZI5w.png)

Thats the template. Once ive cloned it for a discipline i rename it and all its elements and then hide what i dont use.  Every graphic item in the center workspace is represented by one of those lines on the layout item-tree in the left panel (these are the things you can copy-paste).

Okay sorry gotta break off for now and get some sleep.  Will place more updates soon.





Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: lolesch on June 05, 2018, 12:43:23 AM
Happy to see the project is still slide :)
Myself is trying to learn C# coding for the unity engine..
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on July 14, 2018, 06:46:01 PM
I really should make more regular updates on this thread  :-[ nearing build version 100 lol. Will update tomorrow :)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on August 11, 2018, 09:00:08 AM
okay i just uploaded version 119. @Sch123 I believe i was able to fix the problem with the curtain behnd the skill panel - check it out and let me know if its working for you ;)

Steam
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1349328432

Non-steam
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wqIfdT5PfvWoWUHNXi6SKJk0wuhVOcd2/view?usp=sharing

A quick rundown on the state of the mod...

ALPHA STAGE

Fighter - will add a "throw greatweapon" skill
Caster - will add 2 more skill types: moving wall/wave type and a "slow missile" type (think those tornado skills of the desert ghost or those blazing pillars). these ideas are courtesy of Goblin from the discord. this will be per-element so max of 8 new skills :o
Defender - will improve the +HP of the training passive. For the actives i'll add some kind of heal skill and a pulse-aura skill that i want to be useable for monster agro
Animancer - want to add a new passive where standing near fresh corpses will leach a little hp from them
Rogue - i have to add more DW-required skills.

BETA STAGE

Once in beta stage i want to shift to "refinements" like making a better skill panel layout and make space for the planned "cross-over" skills and, if i can, adapting doudley's monster health bars for the Animancer summons. 

I see the main work in BETA, but should also be fun, is coming up with those "cross-over" skills. I'm thinking these are kinda OP skills you get from having high investments in more than 1 discipline. So maybe like Caster+Animancer gives you an OP Elemental summon, stuff like that. Still planning those skills out, so ideas are welcome.

Theres also minor refinements i wanna do but which can wait, like:
- find a way to include your chosen disciplines in your name display (maybe like "Respected Defender-Animancer")
- have a unique unittheme for each discipline but which work well together. so just looking at someone, u get an idea what build they have
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on August 11, 2018, 01:41:42 PM
Thanks! @Phanjam  :D

Quote
okay i just uploaded version 119. @Sch123 I believe i was able to fix the problem with the curtain behnd the skill panel - check it out and let me know if its working for you ;)

Yes, the curtain problem has been fixed. :)

Quote
Fighter - will add a "throw greatweapon" skill
Don't forget to add " -Requirement for Melee Weapon to Equip " & " -%Fumble Damage ". ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on August 17, 2018, 04:29:49 AM
Hi @Phanjam

I see you update Classless and there are two additional skills.

Iritate

I have a suggestion for "Iritate" skills, what if making the enemy will only chase & attacking our Player in 10 seconds rather than just making the enemy approach us. And also It looks like the spelling "Iritate"skill should be "Irritate" (less one letter "r"). :D

Heal Allies

It's a good idea to add the "Heal Allies" skill to be able to heal friends, but it seems there is a problem when you use skills without you target to your friends, the skill is still working, and as a result your health is reduced even though nothing is healed.  :(. Can you make that skill only work if it is on target.



IDEA

Cure

What about "Skill Cure", a skill to eliminate all negative effects.

Invulnerability

There is a bug when you use this skill, you will look hit backwards. I have suggestions for this skill,

- Make it a toggle skill, as long as you still have MP, this skill continues. And to manually turn off you just have to reactivate it.

- Make a protective shell layer around the player to withstand damage (for example: absorb 1000 damage) as long as this skill runs. And if it has exceeded damage, the protective layer around us will be destroyed. Like Alchemist skill "Ember Shield".

- Another idea for the effect of Invulnerability skills. Instead of being made a player to become an Immortal for a while, it might be better to replace the effect with Full Heal. With the cost of all MP (Full MP Players) that the player has, if the Player MP is not Full then this skill cannot work. ;D

Note:

This Invulnerability skill is very strong but also not very useful because the duration is very short (that's what I feel :(). I suggest it is better to replace it with a skill like Cure "skill for dispel negative buff skills that player receives".

Melee Proficiency

Add effects:

- "- Requirement for Melee Weapon"
- "-% Fumble damage"

Immolation Ammo I-III

I suggested changing the Immolation Ammo I-III animation so that it could look good on all Range weapons. Because I saw for gun, Cannon, Shot-gone weapons that were not suitable, the animation was more suitable using Bow & X-Bow. Maybe it would be better if you use the "Explosive Shot" skill in the Vanquisher class, so it will be suitable for all range weapons.

Sharing Skill

Sharing Skills with your Pet. Maybe not all skills, but you can make "Basic Training" skills / some "Passive" skills that you learn can also be shared for your Pet (Skill that can be used by Pet). ;)

It might also be possible for some "Active" skills to be shared with your Pet.

Like from:

- Fighter: Howl, Roar
- Defender: Irritate / Taunt
- Caster: Elemental Magic Attack

Or you can make some skills that have skills for Pet too. So when you learn the skill, your Pet can also learn it, maybe the skill effect is not the same as for the Player, it will be more adjusted for Pet. Like 2in1 Skill.
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on August 21, 2018, 04:53:18 AM
I see you update again by adding 4 skills to the Caster. I like the skill, it really helps to have the "homing damage" skill. :D

Maybe one suggestion for the Lightning Dance icon to be replaced with another icon, because the skill icon already exists in the Lightning Bolt skill.  :P
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on August 21, 2018, 08:20:38 AM
Quote from: Sch123
...Lightning Dance icon to be replaced with another icon, because the skill icon already exists in the Lightning Bolt skill.  :P
Evemtually I want to replace the icons for all the skills. Right now they are mostly just copies - i only make a new one if i cant find a vanilla one that fits :D

Quote from: Sch123
Iritate - what if making the enemy will only chase & attacking our Player in 10 seconds rather than just making the enemy approach us. And also It looks like the spelling "Iritate"skill should be "Irritate" (less one letter "r"). :D
Haha thanks for the spelling-correction Sch! I'll fix that.

As soon as you "irritate" them you should become their "target" and they should do more than just approach; they should attack you also if you let them get close.

Quote from: Sch123
Heal - ...there is a problem when you use skills without you target to your friends, the skill is still working, and as a result your health is reduced even though nothing is healed.  :(. Can you make that skill only work if it is on target.
Okay it's not supposed to activate unless there is an ally "hit" by the skill. Will check and fix.

Quote from: Sch123
Invulnerability:
- suggest it is better to replace it with a skill like Cure "skill for dispel negative buff skills that player receives".
- Instead of being made a player to become an Immortal for a while, it might be better to replace the effect with Full Heal.
I actually like this idea, as a replacement for invulnerability.  Let me think on this some more.

Quote from: Sch123
Invulnerability:
- Make it a toggle skill, as long as you still have MP, this skill continues.
- There is a bug when you use this skill, you will look hit backwards.
- skill is very strong but also not very useful because the duration is very short (that's what I feel :().
Actually Im not happy with this Invulnerability skill. As you already observed, it can be overpowered. If i try to compensate for the overpowered-ness (like making it so short like it is now) it becomes useful only for very, very few situations. I really don't want to make it a toggle because that's just wrong for something as strong as "invulnerablity" which is like god-level.

Which is why i liked your "Strong Cure" idea - I will design some kind of heal/cure and use it to replace Invulnerability. Thanks Sch! ;)

Another skill im not happy with is "Earth Wall". I find it "off theme" for the discipline because i find it too "magicky". My ideaa for a solution is to make it one of the "cross-over" skills. Probably with Animancer since it's actually a summon skill.

Quote from: Sch123
Make a protective shell layer around the player to withstand damage (for example: absorb 1000 damage) as long as this skill runs. And if it has exceeded damage, the protective layer around us will be destroyed. Like Alchemist skill "Ember Shield".
This is already abvailable with the Caster's Warding Sield and Warding Wave skills

Quote from: Sch123
Melee Proficiency - Add effects: "Requirement for Melee Weapon" & "-% Fumble damage"
Oh yes, i keep forgetting about adding -% fumble damage. Will do this.
Wha do you mean about "Requirement for Melee Weapon"? Does it not have this yet?

Quote from: Sch123
Immolation Ammo I-III - ...changing the Immolation Ammo I-III animation so that it could look good on all Range weapons. Because I saw for gun, Cannon, Shot-gone weapons that were not suitable, the animation was more suitable using Bow & X-Bow. Maybe it would be better if you use the "Explosive Shot" skill in the Vanquisher class, so it will be suitable for all range weapons.
I still have to implement a set of explosive skills. I can do Explosive shot of course, but it could also be a simple grenade which you throw so that you can still make explosions even if you're using a melee weapon. What do you think?

Quote from: Sch123
- Sharing some Skills with your Pet
- make some skills that have skills for Pet too. Like 2in1 Skill.
Oh sorry Sch, not for this mod ;)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on August 21, 2018, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Phanjam
Which is why i liked your "Strong Cure" idea - I will design some kind of heal/cure and use it to replace Invulnerability. Thanks Sch! ;)

Awesome !! :D

Quote from: Phanjam
Another skill im not happy with is "Earth Wall". I find it "off theme" for the discipline because i find it too "magicky". My ideaa for a solution is to make it one of the "cross-over" skills. Probably with Animancer since it's actually a summon skill.

What if replaced with a Summon Earth Golem. :P

Quote from: Phanjam
Wha do you mean about "Requirement for Melee Weapon"? Does it not have this yet?

What I mean is effect skill "-X melee equipment requirement". Like the "Ranged Weapons Mastery"  for range weapons, & "Armor Affinity" for armor. :)

Quote from: Phanjam
I still have to implement a set of explosive skills. I can do Explosive shot of course, but it could also be a simple grenade which you throw so that you can still make explosions even if you're using a melee weapon. What do you think?

I think it's better that the animation attack on the skill "Immolation Ammo I-III" is replaced with an animation attack on the skill "Explosive Shot" skill in the Vanquisher class.

The reason is because the animation of the attack on the "Immolation Ammo I-III" skill is not suitable with the Shotgun & Pistol, it looks like shooting an arrow & it was seen shooting down arching. But for Bow & X-Bow this animation is perfect and makes sense because he uses arrows. Also because I like to use a shotgun weapon. :P

It's good if you add skills such as simple grenade which you throw, so that you can still make explosions even if you 're using a melee weapon. This can be made into several versions like;




Note:

- On Caster skills such as "Fireball, Poison Ball, Lightning Ball, Ice Ball" when use that skill he uses his left hand to fire the skill. If our left hand using a melee / range weapons or shields, it will look strange. :(

- Then in the Fighter the skill "Hack, Slash & Rip" when using the skill and one hand using range weapons also looks strange and I also hear that there is a gunshot from the gun, is it really like that?

- On Rogue skills such as "Eagle Eye, Rapid Strike, Blade Dash", When you want to add skill points to that skill we cannot add skill points if we do not use weapons that are suitable for the skill. Is this also made like that?
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on August 28, 2018, 10:37:28 PM
Hi @Phanjam

I have an idea for High-level skill Heal + Cure, "Yggdrasil" skill. Summon Yggdrasil Tree in the game, in around the tree area you and allies will get Regen HP & MP and the negative status buff will disappear. And also when the enemy is in around the tree area, they will slow down & their lives will be sucked as a tree nutrient. ;D

Yggdrasil Logo
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iOxADQEbReA/Tj-lNH8h7II/AAAAAAAACyo/KdQp_rPiEek/s1600/Yggdrasil+-+Logo+-+Occult+History+of+the+Third+Reich+-+Peter+Crawford.png)



Quote
- new Caster active "Transpose" - warp enemies away from you

For the new Caster "Transpose" active skill, can it be made for longer duration for warp enemies. Because I thought, if I could keep warp the enemy a more longer in one place, I thought to do a combo skill with high skills that are owned by caster (Fire Column, Ice Devil, Lightning Dance and Poison Daemon).
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on September 16, 2018, 05:16:17 AM
Hi @Sch123
Nice idea for Yggdrasil! I can make that a high level crossover skill between animancer and caster. Thanks!
For the longer warp effect i see what effect youre going for ;)
I can add immobilization for a short time, but probably at higher level of the skill only. Thanks again!
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on September 16, 2018, 10:39:51 AM
Hi @Phanjam

Can you add 1 passive skill for the fighter?

Passive skill "Bullet Fist", idea from Mongol Archer passive skill Deep Penetration.

Skill description:

Passive skill "Bullet Fist"
Your punch strike with such force that your enemies shields are shattered more often & foes 4.5 meters behind your target at 45 degree arch receive a percentage of your damage

Always Enabled
Inflicts ?% of Weapon DPS
?% chance to break enemy shields

Requires a Claw
Can only be triggered by basic melee attack

And don't forget to add effect "-? To melee equipment requirements" on Fighter skill Melee Proficiency



Bug Report:

I also found a bug in the Rogue skill "Blade Dash", there it was mentioned that this skill requires level 4 Dual-Wield Mastery but in fact it can only be opened at level 6.
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on September 16, 2018, 02:39:42 PM
Oh yes i saw this first in your discord post. Thanks again @Sch123 !
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Sch123 on September 25, 2018, 05:52:46 PM
Is it possible, for Classless Mods to be made so that when using Polearm weapons can hold it like Syl and walk / run?

I tried the Fighter Hack, Slash skill, & Rip seems like the animation doesn't look right when we use weapons like Claw, Pistol.

Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on September 26, 2018, 01:01:41 AM
Hi Sch. Yes its possible to alter the animations, but i do alterations just to make sure that skills work properly. I dont alter the non-skill animations so that i can save my time ;)

Thanks for the feedback on the Fighter skills! I'll get to that this weekend :)
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: steffire3 on September 26, 2018, 09:58:04 PM
@Phanjam I'm sorry to ask since I want you to stay on your project however I have to ask:

Are the Aura Skills in this Berserker Edit mod working as intended? I don't want to add it into Skills Expansion if it's buggy.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=180919336&searchtext=berserker

Thanks for your consideration! :D
Title: Re: "Skills Masteries" Classless Concept
Post by: Phanjam on September 26, 2018, 11:32:00 PM
Hi @steffire3 its ok, if u are ok with waiting a little ;)

I'll get into it this weekend.
Title: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on December 01, 2018, 02:24:29 PM
I keep saying i will update this thread, so here's a new one :D It's about

The Skill Unlocking Mechanism In The Classless Mod

I'll put the pics first and then talk about what's in them...

Skilltree UI Editing
(https://i.imgur.com/1SNvOdS.jpg)

Okay let's take the first Active Skill of the Fighter discipline.  The "Plus" button to add a skill point to it is encircled "A" in the pic.  It's also a "node" named "Plus Fighter Active 1" in the ui elements tree in the lefthand panel ("B").  These are just my names, it could be anything really.

This node is affected by another node named "Fighter Active 1 Req" labelled "C" lower down in the tree panel. That is a "Stat Evaluator" node and if you select it and look over in the right hand panel you can see what its settings or properties are.  So we see it's set to evaluate the Stat "FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL" and check whether the value of that Stat at the time of evaluation is "GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO" the value "2". 

The FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL stat is a dyamic (non vanilla) stat which increments by "1" at every level of the "Basic Fighter Training" skill using a SET STAT effect.  So this is all a way of evaluating "are you at level 2 or higher in Basic Fighter Training?"

How does this affect the "Plus Fighter Active 1" skill investment button?  If the evaluation is FALSE (your FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL is < 2), the investment button is hidden.  If the evaluation is TRUE (your FIGHTERTRAINLEVEL is = or > 2), the investment button is shown.  So effectively you cannot invest in Fighter Active 1 skill until you're at least level 2 in Basic Fighter Training (neat huh?)

How does the hide / show stuff work?  That's set via a UI logic tree which is another node built into this UI.  It's labelled "G" in the lefthand panel down at the bottom of the pic.  When you select that Logic node the toolbar at the very top of the lefthand panel shows a button that looks like a toolbox.  Clicking that tool button brings up the logic tree's own panel which is the next pic...

UI Logic Editing
(https://i.imgur.com/EY1JdfI.jpg)

So there's the Stat Evaluator "Fighter Ative 1 Req" ("A" in the pic) and it's got the 2 outputs "Evaluated True" and "Evaluated False".

There's also the "Plus Fighter Active 1" target node ("B" in the pic. The name is truncated only when the item isn't selected).  It in turn has 2 inputs "Show" and "Hide".  All you do is drag a line between outputs and inputs.  In this case, Output "True" links to Input "Show", and Output "False" links to input "Hide".

Ta da!
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: DeeZire on December 01, 2018, 06:12:46 PM
Thanks for sharing that Phanjam, it's given me a new direction to try with something I've been wanting to do for a while :)
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: lolesch on December 01, 2018, 09:49:07 PM
Hey Pham, thatís a nice little tutorial-like UI description! I wished I had those back in the days :)
Glad to see the basic idea is still alive. I switched the platform from the TL2 editor to Unity and learned some c# coding.
Still working on some zodiac based projects :)
Cheers
And heads up
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on December 02, 2018, 01:53:21 PM
Hey @DeeZire if i was able to help at all then im real happy!

Hey @lolesch Unity huh? Sounds exciting and serious  :D i hope u can share some of that with us one of these days!
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 18, 2019, 11:54:23 AM
Oh oh OH @TwinkleToes can i take advantage of your current "pro-modding" frame of mind ;) to ask for some help plzzz?!

Im trying to make a "curse" skill - I am still coding it but can i get your thoughts on the design pls...

CURSE SKILL

1. cast curse on target

1a. curse applies affix to give triggerable and unittheme

1b. triggerable owner is the enemy but eventcreator is the player and subtype is "HIT" (as i understand it, this will make it a condition to trigger only when the player is the one who hits the cursed enemy - amiright on that?)

1c. i read from gytfunke that any triggerable has to be explicitly removed. im not sure yet how to do this but i'm thinking of spawning an invisible dummy unit at the start of the skill with a summonduration as long as id need the curse to last. Then I'd give the unit a 100% cast-on-death skill that removes the triggerable.  Too clunky?

2. Triggerable will trigger a "curse proc" skill.

2a. I'm thinking this curse proc skill needs to cast from the cursed enemy and it would cast it on itself - i think it needs to be this way because the triggerable owner is the enemy - amiright on that?  Also i didnt want the proc to cast on just any enemy the player hits, but only on the cursed enemy (or does the triggerable condition already eliminate that possibility?)

2b. the curse proc damage will be via a straightforward damage affix maybe scaled with some stat and a pretty obvious additional particle so you can see it happen!  I may also put a statwatcher on it for... i dont know yet but i might :D

Did i miss anything  ???

Thanks heaps for any tips!

EDIT

Aaaand one more plz!

MULTI-ATTACK TELEPORT SKILL

Okay the idea is to achieve a capability kinda like nightcrawler from xmen - teleport over to target 1 and attack > teleport to target 2 and attack > etc. over a fixed number of chains.

Epoch tried testing it (cos he liked the idea lots) and he mentioned he got it to work via spawning an invisible dummy that would pull the player over.

Am pretty sure it was a dummy that would do the pull (rather than the next target hit by a damage shape) because there isnt any plain "cast skill from target" effect.  So i believe (wasnt able to confirm it wth Epoch tho) it was either a "cast skill on death from effect owner" by a dummy that is killed by the player, OR a plain "cast skill on death" and the dummy has a very short summonduration.

I guess im kinda asking if you can help me map-out a "code plan" for this one plz?
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: TwinkleToes on February 18, 2019, 12:09:33 PM
yea np lol

hmmm..
for the curse skill
i tried something like this with one of plaugelords skills, but found out that triggerables applied to targets is really buggy and they take extra work to make.

i think this kind of effect already exists in the game, that is the proc from shocking mobs, you see those little lightning projectiles pop out of them when you hit shocked monsters

im pretty sure its a transferred effect using cast skill on struck



for multi attack teleport skill
i tried something like this too lol, i actually got something decent but it failed on all the testing i did using elevated terrain, very fast action sequences etc. the timing needs to be perfect for a "true version" of this skill to work

but... you can fake it using a bouncing projectile lol, just have the skill launch the bouncing projectile and skin it to look like a fast cutting attack, while you move your character and turn it inert and invisible using a slow animation
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 18, 2019, 12:12:54 PM
Okay i think i know which skills youre referring to. problem i see with a cast-skill-on-struck proc is, wont it cast no matter who hits them?

yea np lol

hmmm..
for the curse skill
i tried something like this with one of plaugelords skills, but found out that triggerables applied to targets is really buggy and they take extra work to make.

i think this kind of effect already exists in the game, that is the proc from shocking mobs, you see those little lightning projectiles pop out of them when you hit shocked monsters

im pretty sure its a transferred effect using cast skill on struck
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: TwinkleToes on February 18, 2019, 12:17:09 PM
you can gate it using a stat that you can only apply

chuck a stat watcher on the triggered skill and have yourself give the stat to the monster when you hit it
or you could make the triggered skill give you a stat and have a hidden passive triggerable that watches for the stat to increment and proc the triggered skill off that.
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 18, 2019, 12:17:37 PM
for multi attack teleport skill
i tried something like this too lol, i actually got something decent but it failed on all the testing i did using elevated terrain, very fast action sequences etc. the timing needs to be perfect for a "true version" of this skill to work

but... you can fake it using a bouncing projectile lol, just have the skill launch the bouncing projectile and skin it to look like a fast cutting attack, while you move your character and turn it inert and invisible using a slow animation

Ok i think i can follow that. Bt i cant see how to control "chaining" with that method, like the missile can choose a next target pretty easily but how do you tell your teleport to follow there?
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 18, 2019, 12:19:20 PM
you can gate it using a stat that you can only apply

chuck a stat watcher on the triggered skill and have yourself give the stat to the monster when you hit it
or you could make the triggered skill give you a stat and have a hidden passive triggerable that watches for the stat to increment and proc the triggered skill off that.

Okay thanks I think i can run with this method - thanks mucho!
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 18, 2019, 12:20:55 PM
hey i gotta head on home (am at the office lol) will catch up in abit - and thanks again!
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: TwinkleToes on February 18, 2019, 12:33:44 PM
np

Quote
Ok i think i can follow that. Bt i cant see how to control "chaining" with that method, like the missile can choose a next target pretty easily but how do you tell your teleport to follow there?

you dont lol, thats why its a "fake version" it just gives the effect.
although i created a modified version of my failed skill and ended up with something pretty decent though, its the skill called razor step in my shadowmaster mod

basically its just a single use skill that dashes you to a nearby target within 10m, the targeting is really inaccurate though, but if you select something it focuses only on that single target and makes you dash through it over and over
but if you dont select any target you just fly off into the nearest monster (and sometimes miss it lol)

i set the cast speed to be really fast so when you use it multiple times(hold the button) it looks like your flying around and through everything

ill try upload a video or make a gif so its easier to understand lol
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: TwinkleToes on February 18, 2019, 12:47:00 PM
woo heres the preview, 1st part is the skill on its "focused" mode 2nd part is when i dont target anything and i just fly off to random monsters



maybe a channeled version of this concept could be better eg. you could give it a minimum channel time to guarantee at least X amount of casts, haven't tried yet but it could possibly make it smoother.
oh and i want to see epoch's version, sound pretty crazy tbh and i want to see if i can get anything out of it :D
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 18, 2019, 02:40:38 PM
Hooboy da boss is back! Thx for sharing that Twinkle! It looks REALLY good no doubt, but i think the targeting has to be more reliable to make it really useful.

About Epoch's method - id love to try it too bcos I never got around to getting the working files from him :P so all i really have is a description from a discord post from him about it.

But i just thought of a variation - what if u spawn say 3 pullers all at once, 1 per monster hit by a damageshape, and have them pull you one after the other. Well its either that or each spawn pulls AND THEN summons the next puller. Dang i dont have the time to test this tonight, gotta get up early tomorrow  >:(
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 18, 2019, 02:46:12 PM
Wait wait wait! Maybe this could use OedipusTex's "chained skills" method! Gotta think through all the possibilities  :'(
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: TwinkleToes on February 18, 2019, 03:11:09 PM
thanks lol
yea, the targeting is messy, its better used as a targeted attack, the auto targeting is just icing on the cake lol.

Quote
But i just thought of a variation - what if u spawn say 3 pullers all at once, 1 per monster hit by a damageshape, and have them pull you one after the other. Well its either that or each spawn pulls AND THEN summons the next puller. Dang i dont have the time to test this tonight, gotta get up early tomorrow  >:(

so basically you create movement points then have them activate in sequence to move your dude, sound extremely finicky and very prone to being broken imo, eg if your movement points are at different elevations or the damage shapes which pulls you fails to hit you etc.

also biggest problem i see with using the pull effect is that when your being pulled you still have collision, so if your in the thick of a battle with lots of monsters you end up just colliding with all the random bodies moving around you not to mention random terrain, so it breaks the whole move fast through everything effect.

maybe using the Teleport effect would be more test friendly, ive never used it much outside of a single skill for plaugelord though, might have to play around with it more

there is also the swap pos with pet effect, ive never used and played around with it, but it could be a solution , at first glance though i have no idea how it exactly works, there is a property tag inside it called pet index, which i assume is what is used to determine which pet to swap positions with.

anyway gnight :D

Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 19, 2019, 03:07:18 AM
Quote from: TwinkleToes
...biggest problem i see with using the pull effect is that when your being pulled you still have collision

ooh look what i found in one of the monster .ANIMATION files...

Code: [Select]
[KEY]
<STRING>NAME:DISABLECOLLISION
<FLOAT>FRAME:__
[/KEY]
[KEY]
<STRING>NAME:ENABLECOLLISION
<FLOAT>FRAME:__
[/KEY]

Quote from: TwinkleToes
so basically you create movement points then have them activate in sequence to move your dude, sound extremely finicky and very prone to being broken imo, eg if your movement points are at different elevations or the damage shapes which pulls you fails to hit you etc.
yes finicky for sure. how about we hybrid the missile and teleport effects - have a missile go between the multiple targets (and deal the damage?) but the player mesh is teleported straight to (or pulled by) the last target?

Quote from: TwinkleToes
there is also the swap pos with pet effect, ive never used and played around with it, but it could be a solution , at first glance though i have no idea how it exactly works, there is a property tag inside it called pet index, which i assume is what is used to determine which pet to swap positions with.
I forgot about that but it sounds like a one-time thing to me. similar to my first question about the "missile option" how do you retarget?

Will try to sneak-in some coding here at work lel
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: TwinkleToes on February 19, 2019, 04:13:21 AM
Quote
ooh look what i found in one of the monster .ANIMATION files...
hmmm, ive played around with this feature quite a bit, it doesnt work for looping animations rip, but maybe it could work for this, the animation would have to be very long(lasting longer than the time it takes to pull from point A > B > C), something very timing specific since movement from point to point is variable, this needs testing too.

Quote
yes finicky for sure. how about we hybrid the missile and teleport effects - have a missile go between the multiple targets (and deal the damage?) but the player mesh is teleported straight to (or pulled by) the last target?
i was thinking the same lol, seems like the most sensible way to go about with this, now this could actually work really well with what i mentioned above, since your only doing 1 pull effect.

Quote
I forgot about that but it sounds like a one-time thing to me. similar to my first question about the "missile option" how do you retarget?
no idea since ive never actually used it, i was thinking the "pet index" stores all the values of your pets, so if you summon dummy pets as spawn points you can locate them with pet index 2, 3, 4 etc. pet index 1 would be your perma pet obviously, biggest issue with this is if you summon other pets then the pet index would get all messed up, just my theory, dont know how it actually works, maybe it doesnt even work at all lol, there is a bunch of effects in there that seems like vestiges eg. the aggro effect.


Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 19, 2019, 08:58:06 AM
Okay i tried finishing the CURSE SKILL 'cos i thought that would be a quick-win.

But i was kinda wrong :P I got it to work using a TRIGGERABLE put on the target which will make the target proc a skill on itself when hit by the player.  BUT the pet attacking the target also triggers the proc skill! So I guess using "FILTER SELF: True" which requires the triggerable owner to be part of the action as one of the trigger conditions, only works if the owner is the player!

Also i didnt find a simple way to remove the TRGGERABLE yet.  So i cheated and made the proc skill require a UNITTHEME on the target, and made that theme last only a few seconds.  it works and the skill wont proc without the theme, but yeah it's still a cheat - i really should remove the triggerable. :o

I think i'll shift to trying to code with your suggestion @TwinkleToes of using a STATWATCHER instead.  I kinda know how this triggerable method could go, so now i wanna see if the statwatcher method comes out to be simpler ;)
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: TwinkleToes on February 19, 2019, 11:49:31 AM
hmm you could do it the other way round too i think

1st your curse skill only has to give a stat to whatever you cast it on

then instead of making a transfer on struck effect you give yourself an on hit effect, you then add stat watchers to that trigger skill to check if what your hitting has the curse stat

essentially works the same way but its easier to manage and you have more options with the triggered skill since it originates from you.
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 21, 2019, 07:28:16 AM
woot! the CURSE SKILL is working now (whew!) will just refine particles and such, BUT i also wanna check out one thing @TwinkleToes ...

i have used code which aims to limit the ability to cast the proc to 10 seconds, in 2 places...

1. in the CAST ON STRIKE affix, with a <STRING>DURATION:10 setting, and

2. in the STAT which gets put on the cursed target, which is supposed to decrement at -1 every second (the SET STAT AFFIX wh1ch puts the stat on the target sets it to '10' at the start, so supposedly it should be '0' after 10 seconds)

I just wanna be sure i've done the STAT itself the right way, so here's the code...

Code: [Select]
[STAT]
<STRING>NAME:ROGUE_CURSED_WITH_POISON_STAT
<INTEGER64>UNIQUE_GUID:-326560734951110310
<TRANSLATE>DISPLAYNAME:Rogue Cursed I
<STRING>TYPE:TYPE_INT
<FLOAT>MAXVALUE:10
<FLOAT>INCREMENTVALUE:-1
<FLOAT>DURATION:1
<BOOL>REFRESHES:true
[/STAT]

does this look right?
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: TwinkleToes on February 21, 2019, 07:45:09 AM
nice

yep that looks about right
i always check back on this if i feel like i got something wrong with stats
http://docs.runicgames.com/wiki/Creating_Dynamic_Stats

try msg me on discord for the little stuff, im in there lurking lol

Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on February 21, 2019, 07:55:34 AM
Quote from: TwinkleToes
yep that looks about right
i always check back on this if i feel like i got something wrong with stats
http://docs.runicgames.com/wiki/Creating_Dynamic_Stats
yuss, thanks! and thanks mucho for that link / it'll come in handy!

Quote from: TwinkleToes
try msg me on discord for the little stuff, im in there lurking lol
a-HA! :D ok thanks will do
Title: Re: Classless Character Mod
Post by: Phanjam on March 31, 2019, 01:47:45 PM
1st part is the skill on its "focused" mode 2nd part is when i dont target anything and i just fly off to random monsters



Hey @TwinkleToes is this Razor Step as it is in Shadow Master, or is it a modified version for this vid?