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Author Topic: One common project (to rule them all ?)  (Read 9903 times)

Offline potterman28wxcv

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One common project (to rule them all ?)
« on: April 30, 2017, 01:08:12 am »
The modding philosophy is to give the user as much freedom as he wants, to cherry-pick changes he wants and changes he doesn't want, leading to him getting an optimal experience.

But when you're new and arrive in the Workshop page, there are so many mods out there ! And you have no idea who is compatible with who.. So people will try to arrange a load order approximately, and then will get a suboptimal experience because some mods will overwrite the files of some other mod.

Given that we got some heavy modders out there, that I know produce mods of great quality, why not create some kind of project where our respective mods would just be part of something of a scale way bigger than what we can achieve all alone ?

When I look at what you guys have done on the Workshop, I see :
  • A lot of new classes : the amazing TL1CP project, but also there's the Variant classes compilation maintained by doudley and Viz
  • LAO 3.0 by RnF : not only does it provide an endless game, but it also provides more fun with items in general, and seems to rebalance the damage/armor graphs as well
  • Brother in Arms Warbound : some people release DLCs for less than that :P it completely changes how you play the game, because you have someone else to take care of. And you can imagine synergies between your companion and yourself
  • Various quality of life improvements

I'm quite sure there's a lot more that can be added in Torchlight 2. What would we gain from working together ?

1) It would be the overhaul mod to use for an optimal experience, gathering a maximum of interesting features in the Workshop. No more going through the whole thing and min-maxing your 10 mod limits
2) By working together, we would ensure our respective mods are compatible and playable with each others. This could also involve direct feedback between us, allowing to fine tune our mods more easily.
3) Generally it's just more motivating when there's several people working together. But you guys already did that for TL1CP ;p
4) Some of our mods make the game easier, some make it harder.. Working together means we can sort it out and leverage the difficulty, providing an optimal experience for the player
5) Help each other out !

The thing I'd like to see in Torchlight 2, but that none of us can do alone :
  • Provide endgame challenges. Similar to Synergies, but without the farm-fest that it is currently. With very tough encounters.
  • Rework and rebalance the vanilla classes
  • Maybe some other stuff too!

If we can manage to put it all together, we would have a very strong mod that would bring to Torchlight 2 even more than Synergies! I wouldn't want it to be the Median XL of Torchlight 2, because MXL changes way too much.. But the players should have a great time playing this combination of mods, because it would be designed for it.

Instead of each of us doing things on our own, we would be creating the overhaul/megamod of Torchlight 2.

That's for the basic idea. Now for the realization, there are quite some questions to be asked :

First of all, would you be willing to do this ? It's a big change in the workflow, and perhaps you prefer to work alone, which is totally fine.

Then, what kind of organization should there be ? Is it technically possible to work on a single mod with several people ? How to ensure no one breaks anything before pushing an update publicly ? :P

Last but not least : obviously we will all have different visions for the game at some point. Do you think it would be an obstacle ? I mean, personally. At some point, changing key features could mean discussing it before-hand, which is harder to do than working alone

I'd be very interested in participating in such a project. Torchlight 2 is the ARPG with the most potential out there - and I believe that with the right modifications/additions, it can become a truly awesome experience.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts about it.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 02:33:44 pm by potterman28wxcv »

Offline potterman28wxcv

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Re: One common project (to rule them all ?)
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2017, 01:14:18 am »
To explain further what I meant with working together, on the existing mods. That could mean in the short term :
  • Integrate all the legendaries added by TL1CP into LAO 3.0
  • Add bindings to Warbound for every class in the Variant's pack

There are also some inconsistencies between the mods, that can only be addressed by putting them all together. For example, LAO 3.0 changes the staff to be Ranged instead of Melee, but then it's not really compatible with the Melee tree of the Alchemist, that is meant to be played with a staff (you can play it with a normal melee weapons, but then you miss out on the elementary damage)

And then there's some final touches that we could contribute, even if we're not the original author of the mod. For example, adding a nice UI binding to Warbound (press Alt = you compare the item with your hooman's. Shift+Right Click = you equip it to your hooman). Or just do some cleaning work ; in the case of Variant classes, I've just found a lvl 1 Teleport scroll that basically learns you a free cost-less teleport spell, hell it even adds you some dodge bonus. I guess it must be something that got included in one of the custom classes, kind of leftover.

I mean, I really believe that if you put all your efforts together into a single project, it might be possible to create a unique experience where there's no side effect and everything is really consistent.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 04:06:03 pm by potterman28wxcv »

Offline doudley

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Re: One common project (to rule them all ?)
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2017, 04:42:53 pm »
I love the spirit!! I'm not clear yet on what's really the objective but I feel like I need to be on this, whatever this going to be. :P

On Steam, we have workshop discussion about overhaul vanilla classes. I also would like to have a recent mod pack for pets. TL1CP's team seems to be leading to an expansion for TL2 (TL2+TL1 Contents). LAO III is an overhaul of TL2's game mechanics. Human companions are totally off the vanilla traditions but I sure be obliged to assist anyone for making custom warbounds.

About your warbound question, I'm not sure if its possible to redirect item compare...seems hardcoded. To equip a mouse-over item, that item must be inside the character's inventory container and menu.

Great topic Potterman!

Offline potterman28wxcv

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Re: One common project (to rule them all ?)
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2017, 07:50:34 pm »
Thanks for your post doudley ! I'm seeing this as a super project, because one day we won't be modding Torchlight 2 anymore, and if we can bring it the extra touch that would make it closer to a perfect Torchlight 2, well that would be truly awesome :P

Human companions are totally off the vanilla traditions but I sure be obliged to assist anyone for making custom warbounds.
Yeah, I just cited it as an example. Whether it stays true enough to the game is debatable. I do think it actually brings an additional layer of customization - but porting all the classes to Warbound is surely not a task to underestimate. If we (I mean, everyone who wants to be involved in this) decide that it's not worth it, and that we should leave Warbound out of it, then so be it.

Do we want to go full "WOW" and agree on all the mods that add extra features (which is the path that took Synergies in the pre-GUTS version) ? Or would we more focus on staying as close as possible to the vanilla, but just with rebalances, end-game content, pet enhancements and the like ?

Offline doudley

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Re: One common project (to rule them all ?)
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2017, 02:58:45 pm »
I'm seeing this as a super project, because one day we won't be modding Torchlight 2 anymore, and if we can bring it the extra touch that would make it closer to a perfect Torchlight 2, well that would be truly awesome :P
I think this is one if the nicest sentiment I've read in a while.

Do we want to go full "WOW" and agree on all the mods that add extra features (which is the path that took Synergies in the pre-GUTS version) ? Or would we more focus on staying as close as possible to the vanilla, but just with rebalances, end-game content, pet enhancements and the like ?
I'll go for the the perfect possible vanilla! Focusing on the standards of the game and its theme, can give you a lot of possibilities for a quality-made modification that will feel like an additional content. I feel like hypocrite saying that because most of my new mods are out-of-place.

Offline steffire3

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Re: One common project (to rule them all ?)
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2017, 09:16:32 pm »
I would say the most important themes and mods that need Expansions, Fixes and Compatibility are currently:

Improving the "Vanilla Game", :)

Improving the "Mod Classes" :-\

Improving the "Weapon Variety" :o

Improving "TL2-E - full conversion/mod" ;)

Improving "Adventure Pack II", ;D

Improving "LAO III", :D

Improving "Synergies" ("Salan has gone missing Expansion"). ???
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 09:28:09 pm by steffire3 »
At this point after playing Torchlight 2 for 5 years original and modded... ignorant of mods and now wise with compatibility... the one thing I value the most-

-is being able to have "support" from the author of any mod.

I think the only advice I can give is that you don't burn yourself out. ^_^

 

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