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Author Topic: skill diversity idea, based on RGF's skills as spells  (Read 2662 times)

Offline StrUktO

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skill diversity idea, based on RGF's skills as spells
« on: July 12, 2016, 07:30:12 pm »
just brainstorming a bit

I'm thinking about increasing the skill diversity by expanding upon RGF's idea.
my expansion would be adding skills from custom classes as spells, with permission of course...
also, I would like to add some completely new skills only available as spells, making it much like the function that spells already have in the game.
however, there would be a lot more of them and their goal would be to increase build diversity to a much larger extent.
there would have to be different versions of skill spells dropping at different levels in the game and some would have to be rarer than others.
it would for example extend the possibility of melee embermages and other hybrid builds.

I would see this as a viable option to add to 'thrasher's armory', shifting its focus more to this idea and the already included expansion upon recipes.
another direction I might want to take is adding this to a larger mod that also merges some ideas that have been largely forgotten, such as the minigun mod and the mapkeybinds mod, again, of course with permission from their authors.
such a mod would then also include thrasher's armory and possibly even some classes.

another thing I then would like to add to that, is some legendary items that make more sense, you know, with affixes that actually set them apart from other items in the game  ;) ;) ;)
an example of such an item is a staff I created for Synergies that procs netherworms, called 'knee deep in the nether'.

at the moment I'm only theorizing because I will need to find some time to do some more modding first.

your thoughts please.

Offline potterman28wxcv

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Re: skill diversity idea, based on RGF's skills as spells
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 11:50:33 pm »
just brainstorming a bit

I'm thinking about increasing the skill diversity by expanding upon RGF's idea.
my expansion would be adding skills from custom classes as spells, with permission of course...
I'm glad you mention RGF's spells - it is one of the funniest mod out there. Especially when you give them to your pet.

However, the problem with that mod is that some skills can become a "must have". For example, Embermage's Frost Phase is the skill to get in priority - it's the strongest escape move of the game, and it can increase a lot the survivability of a character.

But the good thing is that it opens up new possibilities. A Magma Hammer embermage is hardly viable, and you have to get the %life steal set - but if you equip the Berzerker passive giving health regen at each crit, it's a different story.

However, be aware that it will make the game significantly easier. (it provides 4 free skills to each character.. 60 free skill points basically. + the pet's spells)

also, I would like to add some completely new skills only available as spells, making it much like the function that spells already have in the game.
however, there would be a lot more of them and their goal would be to increase build diversity to a much larger extent.
there would have to be different versions of skill spells dropping at different levels in the game and some would have to be rarer than others.
it would for example extend the possibility of melee embermages and other hybrid builds.
I would be more up for this rather than just adding the skills of the classes.
The vanilla spells need a great rework to begin with - only some of them are viable, all the others having either a weird design or a not strong enough effect.

I would see this as a viable option to add to 'thrasher's armory', shifting its focus more to this idea and the already included expansion upon recipes.
The problem with all-in-one mods is that you will have some people who will want only this or that modification, and not the whole.

I think the best way is to have seperate mods, + a big one where you put all your work. It should be just a matter of copying the files between your mods and recompiling everytime you do a change.

another thing I then would like to add to that, is some legendary items that make more sense, you know, with affixes that actually set them apart from other items in the game  ;) ;) ;)
an example of such an item is a staff I created for Synergies that procs netherworms, called 'knee deep in the nether'.
Yes ! We need more legendaries that procs awesome stuff :-D
Right now the TL2 legendaries are just super-unique items - but they don't really have the feeling to be legendary. Ideally each legendary should have a unique effect, something that would be present nowhere else in the game.

I think a rework of the existing vanilla legendary would be appreciated in this regard. But it's a ton of work.

Offline StrUktO

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Re: skill diversity idea, based on RGF's skills as spells
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2016, 11:53:20 am »
Quote
I'm glad you mention RGF's spells - it is one of the funniest mod out there. Especially when you give them to your pet.

However, the problem with that mod is that some skills can become a "must have". For example, Embermage's Frost Phase is the skill to get in priority - it's the strongest escape move of the game, and it can increase a lot the survivability of a character.

But the good thing is that it opens up new possibilities. A Magma Hammer embermage is hardly viable, and you have to get the %life steal set - but if you equip the Berzerker passive giving health regen at each crit, it's a different story.

However, be aware that it will make the game significantly easier. (it provides 4 free skills to each character.. 60 free skill points basically. + the pet's spells)

to me skills becoming a "must have" isn't really a problem, if they really were 'must haves' there would be something wrong with the base classes. imho any good class should have an escape skill and a lot of them do, frost phase is indeed the most effective one in the vanilla classes.
if a berzerker would have frost phase it would be awesome especially in conjunction with the already present ice skills in the tree.
I can also imagine anyone wanting a tier 2 healbot, fixing most health and mana issues in the early levels.

that is of course discussing RGF's mod.

I don't mean to expand his mod, I do however mean to expand upon the general idea.
to keep in the spirit of the mentioned 'knee deep in the nether' staff, just because I love the netherworm mechanic, it would be great to borrow the skill from the nethermancer that does that, just an example.
of course that would largely increase the effectiveness of summoner builds, possibly to an extent where its overpowered.
some balancing would need to be done, surely!

I don't agree with you that vanilla skills would need reworking in that light, because that would be saying that custom classes are better than vanilla ones.
which they are not, or are they?
I suppose that depends on which class we're discussing...
in any rate, the vanilla skills are strong enough to get you through the vanilla endgame, which makes them viable skills in my book.
does that mean I want to drop them as spell?
maybe, some of them, certainly not all.
frost phase is a likely candidate.

Quote
The problem with all-in-one mods is that you will have some people who will want only this or that modification, and not the whole.

I think the best way is to have seperate mods, + a big one where you put all your work. It should be just a matter of copying the files between your mods and recompiling everytime you do a change.

I suppose I both agree and disagree with that.
especially because of the mentioned balance issues it would seem wise to me to make such an addition part of a larger whole.
synergies was for example a mod that in the end really aimed at adding endgame content and a greater challenge, it was however much more than that and it has a balance of its own.
personally I would have liked it if the PvP function was released as a separate mod, it wasn't though.
now if I want to play PvP I have to have Synergies giving me even more incentive to play the mod.
I view mods ideally as custom made DLC/expansions, so to me it doesn't seem unfair to have different aspects in one mod.
there is then also the point of the ten mod limit.
if someone would want them separate I might have to let them down, or release it separately later, depending on what it is they want.
they will play the mod if it is the only one that has what they are looking for.
of course, this means that the rest of the mod has to be up to par.

Quote
I think a rework of the existing vanilla legendary would be appreciated in this regard. But it's a ton of work.

rework may not be the proper term, they would need to be redesigned and there would need to be at least the same number of  unique affixes as there are legendary items in the game.
some thinking work on the mechanics of the game would also have to be done because letting every legendary proc something would be boring as well.
examples: a unique pair of boots that leaves bloody footprints, a chest piece that alters the appearance of the character, a tag that doubles your number of pets etc.

Offline potterman28wxcv

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Re: skill diversity idea, based on RGF's skills as spells
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 01:22:44 pm »
Quote
I'm glad you mention RGF's spells - it is one of the funniest mod out there. Especially when you give them to your pet.

However, the problem with that mod is that some skills can become a "must have". For example, Embermage's Frost Phase is the skill to get in priority - it's the strongest escape move of the game, and it can increase a lot the survivability of a character.

But the good thing is that it opens up new possibilities. A Magma Hammer embermage is hardly viable, and you have to get the %life steal set - but if you equip the Berzerker passive giving health regen at each crit, it's a different story.

However, be aware that it will make the game significantly easier. (it provides 4 free skills to each character.. 60 free skill points basically. + the pet's spells)
I don't agree with you that vanilla skills would need reworking in that light, because that would be saying that custom classes are better than vanilla ones.
which they are not, or are they?
I wasn't saying that the vanilla skills would need reworking - but just a warning that with droppable spells, you have basically 4 free spells to choose from, which means at lvl 100 that you get virtually 60 free skill points. (since at lvl 100, the droppable spells would be equivalent to tier-3 spells, and each of them is worth 15 skill points)

So you would either need to have the droppable version to be slightly weaker than the base version to mitigate that - if you want to keep the same level of challenge that is. Or you leave it like this, and the game becomes a bit less challenging. Which is not necessarily a bad thing - it's just a statement

Quote
I think a rework of the existing vanilla legendary would be appreciated in this regard. But it's a ton of work.

rework may not be the proper term, they would need to be redesigned and there would need to be at least the same number of  unique affixes as there are legendary items in the game.
some thinking work on the mechanics of the game would also have to be done because letting every legendary proc something would be boring as well.
examples: a unique pair of boots that leaves bloody footprints, a chest piece that alters the appearance of the character, a tag that doubles your number of pets etc.
Yes that's what i meant - I had the Diablo 3 high level legendaries in mind. Each of them having something very unique.

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