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Author Topic: Roles, Destinies  (Read 10785 times)

Offline lolesch

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2015, 03:46:23 am »
Hey Phanjam, thanks for the link, looks interesting!
I like the "Influence" brunch...
Never haveseen coggle before but I'll try to create one myself
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Offline Phanjam

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2015, 05:01:30 am »
:) the idea of the "influence" attribute was to affect the progress of quests. Like higher influence gives you more dialog options with npcs. Just a concept...



Offline lolesch

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2015, 11:43:12 am »
:D Its good to see we share Ideas! I'll post a thread soon where I introduce a new "Corruption" system.
This has 2 mechanics. First it will determine story telling and interaction with NPC's and secondly it influences item drops/rolls. (this one needs some more love though)
The Idea is that an Item can be corrupted (as the opposite of enchanted). A corrupted weapon rolls higher stats but it always has a downside!
i.e. you might get a high dmg weapon with decent life steal but you will lose life per second as it is equipped... - still only a concept
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Offline Phanjam

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2015, 06:04:52 am »
The Idea is that an Item can be corrupted (as the opposite of enchanted).

I LIKE this!



Offline lolesch

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2015, 10:14:34 pm »
Coggle is quite funny!
Here are some archetypes

I'm gonna use this to determine "skill types" and attributes to finally start working on the tree...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 12:39:16 am by lolesch »
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Offline Phanjam

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2015, 05:25:33 am »
Here are some archetypes

WOW! I'm amazed your head hasn't exploded yet!

At this point let me just say - while it's great (and correct) to dream BIG, I suggest you break your dream into smaller (more manageable) "modules".

I believe it will also be easier to find people who will want to help (a BIG dream can be very initmidating!), so you don't burn-out working all alone.



Offline lolesch

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2015, 06:02:10 am »
You are absolutely right, this is a BIG Dream and I'm not sure if it ever will see the light...
Though I need the outer conditions to break it into smaller pieces. All that keeps me dreaming and it still feels like I'm on the right track to keep my head not exploding:)
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Offline lolesch

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2016, 02:47:20 pm »
Digging this up again...

I tried once more to implement a different exp gain mechanic
Spoiler
Hey lolesch,

Yes.  You could easily™ implement a 'train to gain' type experience system like you described.  It won't work with the vanilla respec option, but you could make something manually.

I would recommend making it kill-based rather than hit-based.  Hit-based means that it actually favors tanks a lot more because you can get more xp from fewer monsters.  Kill-based means everyone gets the same xp for clearing an area.  If it takes the tank longer to do so, maybe we need to rebalance the tank-type character so his average clear time is roughly the same as the glass cannon... or just let him be and let party mechanics make up for it (that is, the tank's xp gain will be fine when in a group).

That's the other thing.  A character who kills monsters with a fast, repeating skill (Magma Spear) instead of big, single hits (Infernal Collapse) is going to get more xp (and faster) in a hit-based system.  They'll get the same in a kill-based system.

It also affects multiplayer.  If a tank and a glass cannon are playing together in a party, the xp will need to be shared somehow for the tank to get an even share of the xp.  Consider: ranged glass cannons can probably pop popcorn mobs long before a tank could reach them.

And here's how I'd set it up. For weapon skills, use hidden passives attached to the player unit file.  Passive skills can be given weapon requirements.  You can then use the passive to set a bool that indicates the player is using the given weapon setup and use that bool in a statwatcher for another skill that grants 'experience' to the current weapon setup's unique experience pool.  The following is a rough example and may need modifications to function:

Equipped Weapon - Sword and Board:
-Is a hidden passive attached to the player
-Requires a sword in the right hand, shield in the left.
-On Event_Start it sets the player's stat "weapon_equipped_swordnboard" to 1.
-On Event_End it sets "weapon_equipped_swordnboard" to 0.
-That's it.  But you'd want one skill for each possible weapon setup.  The bonus to this is that you can use the bool "weapon_equipped_swordnboard" to modify lots of other skills and effects if you like.

Experience Trigger -
-Is a Triggerable attached to the character via a hidden passive skill (see the Friendly Charge Bar Passives Tut for why you want to do it this way)
-Its condition is KILL and Filter Self is false (I believe this should then trigger whenever anyone gets a kill).  If you can set Unit Type here, set it to Friend.
-This triggerable will case the Experience skill

Experience -
-Is a hidden active proc skill enabled on the player unit
-On Event_Start it tries to apply multiple affixes, one for each possible weapon setup.  Each affix is gated with a Statwatcher that requires the correct "weapon_equipped_" stat.  In this case we want "weapon_equipped_swordnboard".
-The affix it applies should have an effect that adds 1 to the stat we want, in this case "experience_swordnboard".  We want this stat to be permanent, so set 'saves' to true.



Okay, so now we need to add something that will give the player a bonus.  There's a couple ways you could do this.  You could give them a set bonus for achieving a certain amount of experience with a weapon.  So, if "experience_swordnboard" is greater than 100, you get +5% melee damage.  That's pretty good. 

You could also award the players points which they can spend on swordnboard specific bonuses, then give them options.  This takes a lot more work than the set bonuses, but I think it makes it a more robust RPG element.

For this second option you could have 3 tier-1 passive skill offerings selectable in a modified skill window.  They could be SwordnBoard Damage (+5% physical damage), SwordnBoard Block (+2% block), SwordnBoard Speed (+2% attack speed).  Of course, with better names.

I'd probably use the UI for this.  It'd be easier.  So:

LevelUp -
-I'd probably add this to the HUD, since it's always on.
-You'll need to create a logic group for every possible weapon setup and every available levelup tier.  Lots of stuff!  But you'd have to do the same with skills, so this is less work and can be easily copypasta'd.
-Set up a logic group that contains the following elements.
-Start with a timer that initiates the logic every ~1 second or so.
-Use a Stat Evaluator for "experience_swordnboard".  Compare it to your threshold, maybe stat>100
-Use a Stat Evaluator for "swordnboard_tier1_awarded".  This will turn off the logic reward after it's been given once.
-Use a Stat Operator to give both "swordnboard_tier1_awarded" and "swordnboard_skillpoint".
-"...awarded" of course turns off the loop.  "...skillpoint" will of course allow you to buy a passive skill in the skill tree.

As for the skill tree.... I imagine that once you choose a Tier 1 skill you can design the system in one of two ways.  1)The other T1 options are locked and the next level you have to choose a T2 option.  2)The T2 options unlock but you can still buy a T1 option the next time you earn a skill point.

The purchasable passive skills would be really easy to create since they have no levels and will only have an Event_Start that applies the affix and an Event_End that removes it.



So, yes, I'm certain you can craft your alternate experience path.  You won't be able to use graphs (and likely no quadratic functions).  You'll have to input the thresholds manually with this method.  Are there other ways to implement your system?  Maybe.  Could we use the existing skill points and stat points and therefore the experience graph?  Yes, I think so, but not in this implementation.  It would require a dual xp system, one where you earn the points by leveling up as normal, but then you have to have the requisite skill points with a weapon style or other skill before you can invest in a bonus passive in that skill line.

The implementation I've outlined here would allow a character to learn ALL the skills and become a master of all trades (a la Skyrim).  It also works regardless of player level but I'm not sure this is a problem.  If we leave the current xp system in (and just gut the bonuses it provides) characters will still level up.  And I think the KILL trigger condition requires you to kill an enemy near your level (something that awards xp).

So far I got the stats for the equipped weapons and the once that should count weaponhits but somehow I`m missing a link.
When i run the game the statwatcher shows a flat 2 for every hit counter from the beguinning and i cant increase it by hitting stuff...
Any Idea?
Code needed?
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Offline Phanjam

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Re: Roles, Destinies
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2016, 04:30:10 pm »
Hi @lolesch . I will have time to look closer at this by the weekend (but I hope someone is able to help you before then :D ).

But this classless concept is something I'd love to see progress more, so I will help as much as I can.

For now what I've done is made you moderator of this forum along with gytfunke ;)



Offline lolesch

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Re: Roles, Destinies
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2016, 07:04:38 pm »
OK, something more easy to answer i hope:

Currently I have:
Skill with weaponrequirement - lets say "1HAxe"
Event start it applies an affix that add a Stat - axe equipped =1
event end it removes that stat - axe equipped = 0

Now I need one Skill per weapon to apply the related stat when equipped (guarantied by the weaponrequirement)

Q: can you think of a way to apply the stats through only 1 merged skill? may I set the required weapon somehow inside the Affix or somewhere below Skill block?
thinking of Affix -> Target Unittype? what is this else for?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 02:29:03 am by lolesch »
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Offline lolesch

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Re: Roles, Destinies
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2016, 10:53:40 am »
and another problem I can't find a way to work around (well, no simple one)

I've added triggerables on weaponhit which will proc a skill that requires a certain weapon equipped to add the weaponhit counting stat. So far so good!
When I handle 2 different 1H weapons both skills will proc and I end up gaining both stats with one hit since the skills just check for weapon equipped = true

I guess I could fix this by adding triggerables for each combination equipped = a lot of triggerables since the combination includes:
Code: [Select]
lefthand        righthand
axe              none
none             axe
shield           axe
other 1H         axe       (claw, pistol, sword, mace, wand)
axe              axe
so I end up with 9 triggerables instead of 1 I'm currently using.

Q: Is there another way you could think of how to apply just the stat with the weapon that really hits the target? some kind of logic or stat requirement?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 10:58:29 am by lolesch »
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Offline Phanjam

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Re: Roles, Destinies
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2016, 11:27:19 pm »
Hey Lolesch how about using STATs and STATWATCHERS in your skills? That might give u better control over what gets triggered...

Edit:
Btw, would you like your own forum for your roles/destinies concept?

I can make it a sub-forum under "Classless Character" (like a development fork) or make it standalone, whichever u prefer :)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 11:31:01 pm by Phanjam »



Offline lolesch

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Re: Roles, Destinies
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2016, 03:23:34 pm »
What werde you thinking about to apply the stat?
I guess I could use Statwatchers if I can control the unequipped as a stat but I'm not sure how/where to implement a stat that checks empty weapon slots.

The subforum would be sweet. I think that's the best place since the progress started there.
Thanks a lot Phan
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Offline Phanjam

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Re: Roles, Destinies
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2016, 12:02:30 pm »
Hey @lolesch your new sub-forum is ready!



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